New Delhi makes it clear that government can't intervene
New Delhi has resisted pressure from Rome for a “midway formula,” telling the visiting Deputy Foreign Minister that the issue arising out of the killing of two Indian fishermen by Italian marines will now be decided by court.
At a meeting with his counterpart Preneet Kaur, Staffan de Mistura was told that South Block would not be able to intervene because the matter had reached the courts which were “fair and independent.”
After the meeting, Ms. Kaur dwelt on the message given to Mr. de Mistura, which may be repeated when the Italian Foreign Minister arrives here next week. “As far as the law is concerned, they have their interpretations and we have ours. As of today, the two [the marines] are on Indian soil, and tomorrow the Indian court is going to decide what steps are to be taken further.”
Sources privy to the meeting said the Italian Minister claimed that the Italian extra-territorial law should prevail. India has already said its laws also have a similar provision in case an Indian or an Indian vessel is attacked.
Ms. Kaur heard out his argument as well as the claim that alternatively, the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) should apply. It provides for prosecution in the state whose flag the ship is flying. With the Ministry of External Affairs' legal cell already contesting this claim, Ms. Kaur told the Minister that as Indians, “we will go by our law.”
Italy has been pressuring India from various quarters and has tried to bring the Vatican into the picture. With the Catholic angle not gaining traction because of the prevailing mood in Kerala, Rome has made three basic arguments: Italy has a provision for extra-territorial application of its laws; UNCLOS provides for prosecution in the home country; and vessels have the right to fire at pirates.
The Ministry of External Affairs counters these by saying Indian laws, too, have a provision for extra-territorial application; the relevant UNCLOS article applies to naval vessels and, that too, in cases of collision; and only naval vessels have the right to fire at pirates, but in this incident, off the Kerala coast, unarmed fishermen were shot at in an area with no history of piracy.
In the print and earlier online versions of this story, the fishermen were wrongly described in the last paragraph as "armed" rather than "unarmed".
Keywords: Indian fishermen killing, Italian marines arrest, India-Italy ties, Italy diplomat visit, Deputy Foreign Minister Staffan de Mistura, Enrica Lexie
There are wide variety of comments which cover many points of view. To me the following points should be considered: 1. These Italian marines were untrained people who were trigger happy. They failed to note that pirates usually carry heavy guns, and ladders. These fisherman did not have these piracy equipment and they were unarmed. 2. After killing the fishermen, the Italians did not stay and render assistance to the Indian fishermen. But they left the scene and tried to alter the evidence of their presence and involvement in the killings. 3. One should note that Italy had no problem in holding an American girl student for several years in a prison while they were applying Italian law to this American female student who was studying Italian . So I wonder why the Italian diplomats have forgotten their swagger, in holding the American girl in custody for years and insist in applying Italian law.4. In fact the crew ,captain and the remaining four Italian marines should be in custody .
The South European countries particularly the former dictatorial
regimes such as Italy, the Vatican(a city-state within Rome) and Spain
are notoriously infamous for their religious fundamentalism. As the
former Greek PM stated clearly in the HardTalk programme broadcast
live yesterday, the racists of Europe who in fact are the main factor
behind Greek's bankruptcy are trying their best to digress people's
attention from this real cause of the South European economic
meltdown. Unlike the secular France, there is lot to be done to
separate religion from the state in South Europe.
We should appreciate the govt's stand on this. But same time why this same govt not taking action against the Srilankan navy for killing the tamil fishermen?
It is because the Piravom by election is to happen that Ministers of Kerala and Centre
are actively participating in bringing the Italian invaders to law. Even the Cardinal
himself had to retract his remarks. Thanks for Piravom Election and its importance in
keeping the government's majority in the Kerala Legislative. Otherwise this case
would have the same destiny that the Bofors and Bhopal Gas Tragedy Cases had.
What's midway between justice and injustice? Half-justice? A little
justice?
If the Italians believe that their sailors are innocent, then I would
have thought that they'll press for full justice and not for any
midway formula. That they want a compromise instead, tells me that
perhaps their sailors aren't as innocent as they claim.
I hope India would take the matter to the courts and press for
justice, irrespective of whether the ruling in the end is that the
Italians are innocent or guilty.
This is a test for the Indian judicial system and it should be noted that the judiciary in recent times have made a real impact by being an independent just force. The politicians and the Church from both nations should refrain from influencing the law of the land and tying the hands of the court. India today does not need to fear or please Italy and should use its diplomatic channels to reassure Italy's faith in our justice system.
Italian security killing the fisherman and claiming that they were pirates is shameful. India is
not Somalia. Fishermen are not pirates. Diplomacy cannot solve the issue. Indian law
should apply.
I would like to send my personal excuses for the accident that happened to the fisherman's families.
I am very sad for the loss of the two fathers.
This message come from an Italian person, who was born 40 years back in Italy from indian father and italian mother.
Ok. Going by their argument, they fired at people they thought were pirates.
Now Indian naval forces have a responsibility in defending & protecting Indian citizens out in the sea.
How about we test some of our missiles and sink the ship that waged a war on our citizens ?
Whether the act took place in international waters or Indian waters, the question remains as to how the Italian ship's crew could take law in its own hands to kill innocent fishermen who never provoked them. This should be a warning to all foreign countries that they cannot continue to kill innocent Indian fishermen in water who go for fishing to make a living.
"Italy has been pressuring India from various quarters and has tried to bring the Vatican into the picture." I wonder what the Vatican has to do in this case. India should very strongly make it clear that we are a Secular country and do not respect or recognize any religios cult! Maybe we should send VHP members to negotiate the Child custody abuse case going in Norway. Why does a govt want to engage a religious institution in a legal issue is beyond me. Or maybe it is a lesson for Indians that countries in the so called develped part of the world don't reject their religious heritage while safegaurding the rights of foreign religions.
Italy must understand that it is not the same India, which they knew. It is bolder and stronger. It could withstand the pressure from European group manufacturing Eurofighter and US manufacturing F16 in purchasing Fighter planes. It could withstand dictates of US in case of Iran and Syria.
The third argument "naval vessels have right to fire at the pirates" does not apply in this context, as we are not talking about pirates here but fishermen from India. If anyone in Italy has any doubt, let them visit their families are see for themselves. So its clear that the firing is not justified at unarmed fishermen, the warning shots were not fired in the air, the Italian ship was in Indian territorial boundary. Its like, someone getting in to our place and firing at people our house saying that they have the right to fire at robbers! Strange perception. Wake up, and first admit the fault.
UNCLOS can't be quoted in this context rightly, and the warning rounds were completely ignored even in the said "anti-pirate" attack. We are much better off being being a so called third world rather than be a country with such a tolerant and benevolent judicial system which took an eternity to pull the plug on a botoxed 70 year old premier who "dated" underaged and minors for prime ministerial fun. Where was Vatican then?
There is no shame nor loss of prestige of Italy in allowing it's citizens to be subjected to due process of law. In as much as the effect of the action of the Italian sailors was felt on a vassel with Indian registration and flag, India has perfect jurisdiction in the matter irrespective of whether the unfortunate action had taken place in Indian territorial water or in open sea. Indian laws are civilised enough. Unnecessary diplomacy in this matter smacks of semetism. It should act gracefully and compensate the Indian loss as per European norms to assuage the hurt of aggrieved Indian families.
Indian Diplomacy under great test, on one side we have the Norway kids story which as per Indian practise and rules its not a grave offence but yes since they are in Norway police can warn the parents and give some light punishment, but Indian Diplomats are not able to get the kids still to their parents. On the other hand we have real murderers from Italy who have killed two Indians unprovoked and can they go scot free easily
whether is Italy or India the Natural justice is the same . now here two unarmed poor fishermen shot dead by a Italian cargo vessal both vehicale were in not infront of a war feild one is on fishing works and another is on enroute to Egypt. so far there is no evidence that both vehicles confronted each other or firing from both sides . there is no evidence, so far that the firing is for self defence . no atack from the fishing boat. by mere seenig a fishing boat , how they mistook it as a pirates coming for attack ?. there is some missing links are there . let the court has decide what is actually happend . Italians shoud cooperat with the investigation legal procedures . why they are so eager to evade the legal processes ? it is not the correct way expecting from a very historic , highly civilised country.
If this is a routine Indian criminal law problem why is the the Chief Minister of Kerala,Cental Ministers and government officials and the media entering into public discussions (wrapped in patriotic sentiments) on the matter?
Once the elections are over and the MLAs, MPs take oath of office in
their respective legilatures,parliament,after the swearing in
ceremony of Ministers at the Raj Bhavans/Rashtrapthi Bhavan, they all
can retire to Switzerland-of course at the cost of Tax payers money-
till the next elections. Courts will decide on all important
questions. Unimportant ones, power shortages, famine, Tsunami, giving
doles on the eve of elections,they can decide, communicate from
abroad.
India has to abide by law of the land. No question of wavering on
this. No settlement outside the court please. The security of the
fishermen is important in the entire EEZ, 200 Nautical Miles. THe need
of the fishermen is the security in the fishing. Now piracy and
tomorrow is terrorism. The right of small fisher people in the entire
EEZ has to be established. The security of the fisher people have to
secured by law. This is the time GOI has to act. How many fishermen
were killed by the Srilankan navy? What action GOI has taken ?
Nothing. We have to wake up.
THomas Kocherry, thomasksa@gmail.com, www.thomaskocherry.com, +91 936
064 5772.
Why can't Tamil Nadu take such a strong action ?
It is strange that Italy is playing the Catholic card in avoiding
prosecution of the killers who committed the act in Indian
waters.They have knowingly killed innocent fishermen with a trigger
happy mood. I wish to know
what is the law in punishing in Italy for killing innocent people. Monitory compensation will not solve the issue.
If the shooting did happen unfortunately on the mistaken identity,
then would it not be better served if a fair monetary compensation
from the Italians is sought for the benefit of the bereaved family
to make up for the loss they sustained in the death of their
fishermen rather than committing the shooters to Indian law and
punishing them to languish in prison here in an alien country with
no benefit for any one but a burden to the Tax Payers for
maintaining the prisoners? Besides, this course of action would not
bring any strain in the relationship between Italy and India.
For the first time I can say that the congress is showing its belief and solidarity with the Constitution of India and not yet succumbing to International pressure which was unexpected but needs to be applauded.Similar steps should have been taken in cases in Bhopal etc to ensure justice to the countrymen.C.M. of Kerela also should be encouraged for his dauntless behaviour...
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