A day after presenting the “Rozgar Budget”, Delhi Finance Minister Manish Sisodia, in an interview to The Hindu, said that most of the 20 lakh new opportunities to be created by the government will be filled by people without any jobs. He added that the ones with jobs, who will be part of it, will be “very less”. He also said that tax collection is already reviving and that he is not worried about an over ₹10,000 crore increase in fiscal deficit as it is still the “lowest in the country”. Excerpts
How did the idea of ‘Rozgar Budget’ come up?
After the pandemic, unemployment became one of the major problems in the country. When we sought suggestions from the public before the budget, the major request from them was to do something about jobs. Employment is the biggest necessity, specially after COVID-19. After receiving suggestions from the people, we employed our think tank and teams to work on it.
Did you seek help from experts from outside the government?
We consulted many experts from various fields. Then our researchers, who were divided into teams, met market associations. They had at least 150 meetings before having an in-house consultation. The budget was based on all these things.
Which are the five iconic markets mentioned in the budget that will be developed in the first year?
We have not fixed them. We have a long list of markets with whom we held consultations. But we want to invite more markets. It’s too early to name any right now. In the next few days, we will call the market associations to finalise.
In the budget, the government has talked about redevelopment of non-conforming industrial areas and there are 25 such industrial areas. This is a huge exercise, will the government be able to complete this in five years?
Yes, five years is a good time. We have created road maps and have had discussions with people in these areas on where they will invest.
You talk about all projects in terms of five years, but the government has only three years left in this term. So why don’t you aim for three-year targets that can be completed in your term?
We are confident that for the next 10-15 years the government will be ours, thanks to the way development work is being carried out in Delhi. We will, however, have indicators for every year. There are two things: there is the political party, the Aam Aadmi Party, and then there is the government. According to a political regime, you cannot create a plan. Any development plan has to be made in a practical timeline.
You said “at least 20 lakh new jobs in the next five years”. But in a breakdown of this, multiple projects do not have a specific timeline of five years. For instance, to redevelop non-conforming industrial areas, the budget says “after redevelopment”, more than 6 lakh jobs will be created. Similarly, the budget says 80,000 people will get employment once we build an electronics city, but it doesn’t give a timeline. Will it be done in five years?
Yes, we will complete these project in five years or even before it.
In some projects, such as the Delhi Shopping Festival, the government has not mentioned how many jobs will be created and has only said that 12 lakh lives will be affected in a positive way.
When a market’s economy increases, jobs will also increase. That is why we did not quantify it. Wherever we could quantify it, we have done it. That is why I am repeatedly saying at least 20 lakh jobs (will be created). It’s going to be huge.
You said initially (in the budget) that 20 lakh new jobs will be created thus, increasing the number of people with jobs in Delhi from 56 lakh to 76 lakh. However, later in details of schemes, you say “new opportunities will be created” (and not jobs). For instance, in smart urban farming, gardeners will be involved and 25,000 “new opportunities will be created”. If I am a gardener and am working somewhere else now. Once you create smart farming, I will come and join work in smart farming. You say it is a “new opportunity”, but a new person is not getting a job. It is the same person, right?
How can a simple gardener attend all the new upcoming urban farming. There will be more gardens, not just one garden. Across Delhi, if urban farming is happening, then thousands of gardeners will be needed. It will have new gardeners.
The same is with other schemes also. For example, budget says e-autos will generate 25,000 jobs. But a lot of existing drivers will be taking up these e-autos. So, we are creating new opportunities, but not exactly new jobs as it will be the same person getting the new opportunity?
Irrespective of whether old autos will phase out or not, there will be new jobs. It might not be the same person.
So, there will still be an overlap (of the same person getting the new opportunities), across the schemes, right?
Very few, very rare. It won’t be high. If the sales in five markets is increasing by 25%, then the same number of people won’t be enough. Because of the cascading effect, new jobs will be created. The philosophy is that we are augmenting the demand side. Wherever in the world, the demand side is nurtured, jobs have increased.
The budget said that 5 lakh jobs will be created through Rozgar Baazar 2.0 in the next five years. But in Rozgar Baazar 1.0, we have been saying that 10 lakh “job opportunities have been created” and not saying 10 lakh people got jobs. Did 10 lakh people actually get jobs?
15 lakhs jobs were posted on the portal and 10 lakh people got jobs.
It has been seven years that the AAP government came to power and still fecal coliformbacteria — from animal excreta — in the Yamuna is above permissible limit at all points, except for Palla, where it enters Delhi. Isn’t seven years a long time to clean the river stretch passing through Delhi?
I completely agree, but we have to fix our priorities also. Our first priority was schools and hospitals. Generations were being wasted. And there were a lot of teething problems with the Yamuna. There were a lot of court cases earlier but we are out of most of them. Now, is the time and this is one of the top most priorities.
In the case of air pollution, we have been saying that air pollution [in Delhi] is happening due to stubble burning in Punjab. Now that you are in power in both the States, how are you going to handle this situation?
The way you say, it feels that pollution doesn’t come from anywhere else. There is pollution from Haryana. There is pollution from Uttar Pradesh.
True, but a large part of it is from Punjab and now you can’t say it is from Punjab as you are in power in both States.
I agree, but when smoke due to stubble burning from farms of Haryana and Uttar Pradesh comes to Delhi, no one asks Yogi Adityanath or Narendra Modi or Manohar Lal. We have come to power in Punjab only a month ago and we are being asked to be accountable. No one asks the BJP about pollution. It is as if Gurugram’s and Noida’s pollution are not pollution. It’s a problem of north India and not just Delhi or Punjab. People ask this question that since in Delhi and Punjab it is your government, will the pollution problem be over now? That is a very narrow definition of pollution and politically driven. Until the government of India is serious and comes up with solutions, it will be a problem. We have worked a lot in Delhi on this. Delhi and Punjab will work together on this to bring down the pollution levels. But will someone ask Mr. Modi or Mr. Yogi or Mr. Lal whether the share of other States in pollution will come down? No one can ask.
Fiscal deficit (which is the shortfall between government’s spending and earnings) has been increasing from ₹3,227.79 crore in 2019-20 to ₹13,908.98 crore in the current budget, in the current budget. That is an increase of more than ₹10,000 crore. Aren’t you worried about this? Also, is the increasing fiscal deficit going to change your future plans in any way?
No, I am not worried. It is the lowest in the country. We have to spend to take the economy forward and fulfil the necessities of the people. We shouldn’t be scared of the fiscal deficit as long as one doesn’t have budget constraints and we don’t have any such constraints in Delhi. Also, the increasing deficit is not going to change future plans.
In the last two years, the actual tax collection was less than the estimated collection by 33% and 10% (₹4,600 crore). In the coming year also, the government has estimated a tax collection of ₹47,700 crore and planned a budget of ₹75,800 crore. Do you think in the coming year also, tax collection will be less?
The tax collection is already reviving, and in the current year it will match the estimated amount.
With regard to the government’s welfare schemes, be it free water and electricity or free bus travel for women, one common criticism is that it is available to the rich also. There is no annual income limit for these schemes. Don’t you think it should be changed?
No.
What is the reasoning behind it?
In this country, whenever poor-specific schemes are made, all of them become prey to corruption. A scheme which is equally available to everyone, in which everyone is a stakeholder, they make sure that it is properly implemented. Whenever a scheme is created for a poor-specific segment, no one bothers whether it is working properly or not. The poor do not have a voice. Let both — rich and poor women travel for free in buses. What difference does it make?
If someone lives, for instance, in Jor Bagh and is a millionaire and his water consumption is within 20,000 litres (a month), it is free for him. The government spends money on the rich people.
If in Jor Bagh, there is someone who is conscious to limit his water consumption, then I think he or she should be rewarded. You are just seeing the arithmetic. If someone is living in a big house in Jor Bagh and limits his water use to 20,000 litres, why should they not be rewarded?
