Reluctant politician in the Delhi durbar, Manohar Parrikar is back where he always wanted to be. In the saddle again as Goa Chief Minister and having won the trust vote in the House, the 61-year-old has got down to business. The Bharatiya Janata Party-led coalition government has sought a vote-on-account for three months and tabled the annual State budget for 2017-18 which will be discussed in the monsoon session. The hectic three-day Assembly session over, the Chief Minister dwells at length, among other things, on the post-poll drama around government formation, his days as Defence Minister, and why he may actually retire from politics after this stint. From an interview in his office at the State Secretariat in Panaji:
I know you for years as a politician who could predict elections seat-by-seat. This time, you told me on counting day that the BJP will get 25 seats; it ended up getting 13. How do you explain that? Were you serious or just keeping the party morale high?
Yes. I was serious. The reason was there was a people’s response to the government ahead of elections. Absolutely. Try and understand the meaning of what I say when I point out that our vote share went up to 32.5%, which means we have not gone down in terms of voting. At the individual level, it’s sad that so many persons lost.
You had told me ahead of the elections that this would be a watershed election, and that a couple of your own party bigwigs will also bite the dust… but so many Ministers losing, including the Chief Minister!
I agree. But I think that [the defeats of senior party leaders] happened a bit too much on our side, beyond my expectation. Maybe because I did not sufficiently gauge the direction of the anger. People went after individuals, and they perhaps did not realise that the overall impact of the manifestation of that anger could result in overall instability.
Were you shocked or hurt by the result? Going down from 21 to 13 seats...
I am not hurt. Why should I be hurt? Our seats have fallen, but we got our votes even in those constituencies. Yes, but definitely I am disturbed by the trend that our people do not think on the lines of a State, think much on the lines of a village panchayat or a municipality, maybe because of the State’s smallness.
People cannot be thinking on the lines of individuals, people have to think in terms of a political party. A few individuals here and there is all right, but the overall thinking should be in terms of a mandate for a party.
This may be partly happening because of Goa being a small and compact State where everyone knows everyone, and partly because people are raising their bar of expectations which is soaring very high.
Do you think people were expecting a high performance from your successor government based on what you achieved?
Definitely. But expectations cannot be one way. On one side you expect your elected representative to give goodies, personal favours and on the other you expect her/him to be totally clean and deliver as a people’s representative most effectively. I think these are contradictions which people themselves will have to address.
The party central leadership had hinted right in the middle of the elections that it may send a Delhi-based Goan leader [i.e. Mr. Parrikar] after the polls. Why?
That was because they also had realised and felt that the government was not as successful as the regime it succeeded.
The government that you have formed is of disparate parties and individuals. Ideologically, and also on the party manifesto front, how can it deliver?
Ideologically, MGP [Maharashtrawadi Gomantak Party, one of the oldest regional outfits] is not very far from BJP ideology. Independents do not come with any ideology except a plea for development. That leaves Goa Forward Party [GFP]. As far as the GFP is concerned, we are together on the plank of ‘Goenkarponn’ or Goanness and development. Like Vijay [Sardesai, GFP leader] says, I also firmly believe in and pursue this Goanness. I have no discomfort to adopt and adapt to the word ‘Goenkarponn’. Because I have always maintained that while the culture of Goa is same as that of India, it has a different flavour. I am not saying that it is totally different, but at the same time it is not entirely same. For instance, Goan culture of particularly the Hindus is very close to the Maharashtrian Hindu’s culture, yet at the same time it has its difference.
Goans have traditionally integrated well between communities, they peacefully coexist. Goa has a blend of influences, we have all communities represented in our party… all that is Goanness. Check for yourself.
That Goenkarponn has to be maintained and protected, no doubt about that. The development agenda, that nobody disputes. Now there will be small issues like protecting coconut palm [the State government last year had formally derecognised it as a tree], etc. These are small issues, it is not very difficult to address these.
Are BJP MLAs, workers, sympathisers disappointed that there isn’t sufficient power-sharing for them in their government?
It is for the people of Goa to think and ponder over the future. They will have to ensure that a single political party gets the mandate in future. If not me, let them give the mandate to Congress, I have no issue. A single political party being elected to power is a solution, not a fractured mandate, it cannot be technically accepted and healthy for a long-term solution for Goa.
I have come, for instance, I may handle this fractured mandate for five years, I am going to do something, fine. Can I be there for 50 years? By giving a clear mandate, you develop political parties and culture of stability, and continued fractured mandate leads manipulative politics to develop. What we [Goans] today are suffering is the consequence of repeated fractured mandates. There are too many manipulations, too many compromises have taken place, a lot of adjustments are made when a mandate is fractured.
Now, I have the ability of doing things within legal limits, ability to get things done, so that is not a big problem. Everybody can’t do that, they will go for shortcuts, and that will destroy Goa. No hesitation in saying that.
Even from our party, people should understand — and they have understood — that we have not got a majority, so adjustments and some compromises are inevitable. It is the name of the game.
You may not want to accept the argument, but the fact is that the Congress was the largest party with 17 seats, so they should have got…
The same argument can be used saying that we got 32.5% votes and they got 28%-plus votes.
It’s a larger issue. The way the BJP formed governments here and in Manipur, what happens to the convention that the single-largest party gets the first call from the Governor in case of a fractured mandate?
There is no convention.
It was followed in many instances…
No, there is no convention. I can give you hundreds of examples… Try and understand, where there is no pre-poll alliance, the convention is that the Governor or the President normally calls — correct words — the ‘biggest single unit’ for formation of government. But this is subject to the condition that you bring a majority of people with you. Not subject to the condition that I will call you and then you form your majority! You have to go with 21 [MLAs] to the Governor. You get priority.
However, after the election, within 18 hours, by next evening, we took an appointment with the Governor at about 4.30 or 5 p.m., we were ready with everything.
The Congress files a petition in Supreme Court, the court made it very clear, asked them ‘where is your number?’ You can go to the Governor with the number now also. The same day they went to the Governor at 1.30 or 2.00 o’clock, again with 17 [MLAs]. So the proof was very clear that they were never beyond 17.
See, this is isolation of the Congress for their corrupt practices, nepotism and self-centredness. This was isolation of the Congress which resulted in their remaining with 17 seats. Where is a legal or constitutional aspect involved? The Supreme Court clearly told us to prove it [majority] next day in the House, we said we will prove it next day and we did prove it.
If the allies had not approached you demanding that you should form the government, as you said it, would you have continued in Delhi?
Why? Then there would have been no reason for me to come back. Why would I come back?
What are your government’s priorities?
The Governor’s speech, followed by my Budget, articulates my priorities. One is education, the other is development. We are not compromising. My development idea also has emphasis on cleanliness. Garbage-free Goa. I will be very strict with sellers and users of plastic bags below 40 microns, for instance. I will give three months and then crack down. Let me put solid waste management in place by June. A notification will come effective from July 1, which will prescribe fines of ₹5,000-₹10,000 for littering of the highways also. After June you will see things happening. After September you will be surprised to see the routes and public places [without litter]. I bet on it.
So basically, cleanliness, mobility plan [comprehensive public road transport network], and employment. These are the three areas. I want to increase the quality of education. I will do that by drawing on my pan-India exposure and experience of two and a half years as Defence Minister.
How stable will this government be?
I see no reason why you should have any instability factor. It will work on a common programme.
There is a perception that you will drag this coalition till 2019 and then go for a mid-term election along with the Lok Sabha polls.
I will tell you honestly, I do not see myself as Chief Minister after five years. So I see no reason for me to terminate this arrangement before five years. You asked me earlier if I would have remained in Delhi if [we had] not formed this government. Yes, I would have remained only for this term [even in Delhi]. I am not sure if I will continue beyond this term in politics. Eventually you have to take your own call on such matters. I declared long back, I will continue in active politics [till the age of] 60-65. I have stretched it that much, it is more than enough, I feel. I also believe that people should think of retirement at 65-70 years, based on their health. You should not simply go on and on.
In fact now that I have come here, I intend to develop some new leadership within BJP, and otherwise also. At least a leadership which understands the importance of quality, character, ability, integrity and importance of remaining clean.
How important is the lone Rajya Sabha seat of Goa that will fall vacant in 2017?
[It’s] definitely important, the one who will go to the Rajya Sabha will add to our representation there. The Central government is backing us fully. On phone calls I get things done.
Where will you contest the by-election from? Panaji again?
This is not an issue. It hasn’t been discussed in the party. I have multiple options if I want. It is no issue at all.
In my years of political life, I have never compromised on my personal integrity. A lot of people talked that I had a ‘setting’ [tacit understanding] with [former Taleigao MLA] Babush [Monserrate] for my elections in Panaji over the years. Never at all. This time he [Monserrate] moved to Panaji and got defeated [by the BJP’s candidate], and that speculation stumbled on its face.
Did the 35-day gap between election and results help you cobble together this coalition?
[It] is a speculation and rumour that I contacted Vijay [Sardesai] ahead of the elections, results, etc. Never. Frankly, it is Vijay who contacted me and, of course, I responded.
What do you think of the appointment of Yogi Adityanath as U.P. Chief Minister?
I don’t see anything wrong. It is like this. Instead of raking up the past and presuming that a person will do something wrong, let the person perform and if he does not, or goes off track, well, you have the right to criticise him. He is quite a capable person.
You spent close to two and a half years in South Block in New Delhi. How would you describe your overall experience?
It was a very important portfolio, neglected for 10 years, eight years at least to be precise. I feel that I contributed a lot, but instead of bragging myself, that I did this, I did that, you can take inputs from outside.
What is important is to understand that the Army is a different organisation from civil[ian institutions]. When one chooses a career in the Army you have to realise that life is rigorous and tough. You are selecting a tougher career. If the police tell me we don’t want to fire, exempt me from that, can it be done?
Take the issue of grievances raised by the BSF on social media. People and the media have to understand that they do not come directly under the Army, but the Ministry of Home Affairs. Still we took cognisance and acted.
I have no issues with Army or BSF personnel expressing their grievances, but considering their discipline, I feel their using social media to vent their grievances may spell costly for the country vis-à-vis discipline.
I am definitely in favour of addressing their grievances, but there should be a different mechanism worked out. My objection is the way that they are being presented. Social media cannot be part of grievance redressal.
What were the major challenges you faced as Minister of Defence?
The biggest challenge was that there was no decision-making. No decisions were taken. I made them positive and they were encouraged and started taking decisions.
You left the Ministry when major changes were being brought in such as the strategic partnership model for private player participation in defence projects, among others. There is a feeling that you had brought a new dynamism in the Ministry and that it will all be undone…
All these have been brought closer. It will go through. I almost got it to the last stage. Maybe some minor changes could be there, but I hope it will go through.
For instance, the Rafale deal, it was moving in circles, it would have never come out of it. I convinced everyone that it is in the interest of the Forces, reduced the price by ₹14,000 crore at least and everyone got convinced, and they supported me and the deal was cleared. The problem is they are worried about the problems like CBI, other agencies who come.
Do you think the Defence Minister’s persona counts in these contexts?
Very much, obviously, it is your integrity also which counts everywhere. It is not only in Defence. When a person of integrity tells something, people know that it is not in your personal interest but in the larger interest of the nation.
Do you think it was right in [the] national interest to have left all this abruptly?
I do not find it appropriate to discuss this. Whatever circumstances that evolved, I took the best decision.
Do you expect the policy changes and reforms you had initiated and spent considerable time and effort on to be continued?
Absolutely no doubt about it. They will move forward. Because most of them are in the pipeline. What goes in the pipeline normally comes out. If the flow is reduced, they come out a bit late, but once they are in the pipeline they will be completed definitely.
What do you consider as your biggest achievement in the Defence Ministry?
Inculcating confidence in the soldiers is my biggest achievement, I feel.
What does one say about a leader who leaves behind a budget of over ₹1.8 lakh crore and comes here and tables a budget of ₹16,000 crore (Goa State budget)?
More than ₹3.42 lakh crore budget! If you want me to compare them (smiles), please turn off the recorder…
