On the eve of the release of her new film, Srijit Mukherji’s Begum Jaan , Vidya Balan is busy giving a series of press interviews and posing for a million photographs at Mumbai’s Filmalaya Studio. In between all the chaos she makes a call to her niece, admires our photographer’s nose ring and puts her feet up in the couch in her vanity van to patiently take all our questions —pausing, thinking, looking for the right words, even extending our free-wheeling conversation by ten minutes. Excerpts from the interview.
There is this sorority of sex workers in Begum Jaanand their brothel seems to be the place where the differences — of nation, religion, caste and class — appear to collapse…
There are [these] women and then there are men [outside] who belong to different religions, castes, classes. Which is why Begum Jaan’s kotha is a safe haven. She will protect the women very fiercely. She is not ashamed of the fact that they are sex workers. It’s not a choice they have made. They have reached there by circumstance. But now that they are there she believes in playing by her rules. She doesn’t adhere to, she doesn’t fall in line with what is expected. She says ‘ yahan jism hamara, kanoon hamara aur usool bhi hamare hi chalte hain ’ (‘it’s our bodies, laws and principles that run the show here’). [The fact that] you are trading in pleasure doesn’t mean that you don’t have a say. There is a certain freedom that she has given the girls within the confines of the home. They are all one [unlike the world outside that is divided]. There are no judgments, no pre-conceived notions in her house. You are allowed to be who you want to be.
Trading in pleasure, as you pointed out, is a job, which you may or may not be doing out of choice. But one notices that to bring a woman down the one abuse often hurled at her is to call her a prostitute…
Or ambitious (laughs). I wouldn’t appreciate if it was used as an abuse against anyone. But having said that, it’s a male construct, a societal construct. Why do you have to use mother or sister to abuse anyone? Because honour is linked with women and their bodies and sexuality. Because a man has always been told that he should own a woman’s body. Your masculinity derives its identity from your ability to control, own, possess the feminine form/body/being.
When you are playing a sex worker isn’t there a thin line you are walking on? In the sense that it could easily be titillating, pandering to the male gaze…
If I am meant to titillate as a sex worker, I don’t mind doing that. In this film, I didn’t get a chance to do that because she is the one who is running the business. She is the madam of the brothel. She is getting the other girls to do her bidding. Coming back to your earlier question about whether I’d have a problem being called a prostitute. Well how is it that a man who sleeps with many women is called a Casanova and a woman who is ambitious, who might enjoy the act of sex is called a prostitute? Or a woman who is friendly, who is just brazen? You think that when you target a woman’s sexuality there couldn’t be a bigger abuse. But guess what, it doesn’t faze me. At the end of the day, it’s another profession.
The Dirty Pictureback then, Begum Jaannow. Similar characters. Where is the difference?
Silk [of The Dirty Picture ] had a choice. None of these [ Begum Jaan ] girls had a choice. Silk ultimately wanted the acceptance and the approval. That’s what she craved for and that’s what made her take her life. She felt disillusioned when she didn’t get it, when she realised that no one really loved her. The body had brought her to the state of disgrace, of complete lack of love. She committed suicide, which is wanting to do away with that body. But Begum Jaan is a fighter, she will fight tooth and nail for what she wants. She doesn’t allow anyone to dictate to her. As [Mahesh] Bhatt saab tweeted she is the heroine of her life, not the victim.
It reminds me of Shyam Benegal’sMandi.Is there a similar kinship amongst the girls here?
Some people get along well. There is jealousy, there is insecurity. Some would die for each other. There are very real equations. Yet they all stand together.
Did you see the Bengali original ofBegum Jaan,Rajkahini?
I saw it because when [director] Srijit [Mukherji] came to me he didn’t have a script. He said he’d write it if I liked the Bengali version. It grabbed me and how! I have consciously blocked it so that I don’t get influenced by anything in that film. In fact, I don’t remember much of it. After Begum Jaan , I will revisit Rajkahini .
What is it about Bengali filmmakers — Pradeep Sarkar, Sujoy Ghosh, Ribhu Dasgupta, Srijit Mukherji — that works for you?
Bengali filmmakers respect, value and a lot times even revere women. The images of Kali and Durga are very strong in their consciousness. Those images, or their derivatives, find representation in their cinema. So the strength, valour, anger — the way they portray women is very different. They have a natural proclivity to stories where women take centrestage.
Where does your own independence stem from? Your middle-class upbringing? Your family?
The middle class imbibes certain values and strength of character because there is nothing you can take for granted. You are treading cautiously; it’s a tight rope-walk. You can redefine middle class now as upper, lower. But generally, “values” are what is most precious to it. It is the middle class in every society that finally contributes to change, because it is the most educated, resilient. And not through preaching, but practice.
It’s my family that undoubtedly makes me who I am. My parents and my sister, most importantly. She has been the most influential person in my life. My sister’s husband, who came into our lives 16-17 years ago, has also been a very strong influence. I do think that my mother is very independent-minded. She is a homemaker. In school and college, we used to tell her to go out and work. But she never wanted to do that. It was her choice. She didn’t like the idea of stepping out. She wanted time to be her own self. Within the South Indian middle class household, we have all been very self-dependent.
You have been identified with playing these strong roles, especially of late. Are they your choices? What about the times when you went wrong?
I don’t think I have gone wrong. I don’t see failures as wrong choices. What felt true to me at that point I did. My work is an extension of my beliefs. When I see a character going through a certain journey and I find it inspiring or challenging, then I want to tell that story, play that role, I want to be that person, inhabit that world. There is no process, it’s just instinctive. There has never been a strategy or plan. I am still not doing roles to serve a larger purpose or image.
Earlier there used to be this binary — of the devi(goddess) and the daayan(witch). Woman-centric films were about women sacrificing their lives for the larger good. Your generation of actors seems to have broken that down…
Look around us. The sacrificial goat, so to speak, is not exciting, interesting, inspiring any more. Today, we are all saying that don’t sacrifice yourself at the altar of anything or anyone. Today, we have women with ambitions, desires, dreams. You are finally humanising women, not just glorifying or vilifying them. They have their strengths, weaknesses. They are good, bad, ugly, black, white, grey — whatever you want to call them. It’s far more fulfilling to see that on-screen.
Having said that there are prejudices that are still very strong in the industry…
Of course. I remember two years ago at the Oscars, Patricia Arquette, who won the award for Boyhood , had said that it’s high time we get paid equally. I think it’s all over the universe, but the good thing is that we are aware of the fact that there is a disparity [and] that it’s unfair. A dialogue has started. People have started demanding their fair share. There is that restlessness saying we are not going to settle for less.
Does this come from the fact that you have a certain stature in the industry now? A woman who is struggling may not be able to articulate her thoughts as well as the one who has arrived…
I have always led my life on my own terms. It was never easy. My path was that much more laden with ups and downs and difficulties. It wasn’t a straight path, but I am happy I did it the way I wanted to. I always felt I had the luxury of choice. I didn’t run away from some small town to come to Mumbai. I didn’t have to compromise to survive. There was food on my table. I had a home to go back to. I had a family that accepted me unconditionally. I had that security. But no one is going to give you the moon and the stars. Maybe if you look at your own reflection in the pond you will see the moon and stars as well.
You mother has been a homemaker, you are a working woman. So there are many layers to feminism, even in your own family?
Absolutely. Feminism is about standing your ground, it’s about valuing yourself, it’s about knowing that you have first right to your body, to your choices, to your life. That you have the right to equal opportunity, equal respect, equal love, equal pay, equal money. And all of that and more. It doesn’t matter whether you are in a work atmosphere or at home. We are constantly negotiating. Also, my understanding of it has changed over time. There was a point of time when I thought that every woman should work, no one should sit at home. I do think it’s very important for every woman to be economically independent. Having said that, today, I laud a person who stays home, wants to be a homemaker. To each their own. It’s about your choice, to be/do whatever you want to.
