British actor Dave Johns spent most of his adult life as a stand-up comic performing in clubs and on TV shows, with one small supporting role in a major stage production of One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest , where Christian Slater was in the lead. But now, at the time of his life when many people may seek retirement or at least start slowing down, Johns has started a new career. The 60-year-old made his film debut as the lead in Ken Loach’s I, Daniel Blake .
The film won the Palme d’Or at this summer’s Cannes Film Festival, and since then has been celebrated across many other international film events. Johns’s portrayal of a widowed carpenter, who seeks state unemployment benefits after a heart attack, has won him praise from critics. Acting in I, Daniel Blake has changed his life. Johns has already won best actor trophies at the British Independent Film Awards and the Dublin Film Critics Awards. There is talk of a BAFTA nomination, and even though he is a long shot, his name has also shown up among potential Oscar nominees.
Johns was at the Dubai International Film Festival in December last year, where he talked about working with Loach, the 80-year-old master director’s unique style of filmmaking, and collaborating with his young co-star Heyley Squires, who plays Katie, a single mother of two kids also struggling with Britain’s massive bureaucratic system.
You have been a comedian most of your professional life, and I am sure you are funny in real life also. How does a comedian move to doing a terribly sad drama about very real people living on the edge?
I think that has a lot to do with the film’s director. This was my first film. Ken Loach is the perfect filmmaker to work with. He shoots chronologically. You don’t get the full script, only little pages each day. So basically, you live the journey of your character. There are some things that he keeps from you. The food bank scene in the film, I didn’t know it was going to happen. Only Hayley knew that was going to happen.
I suppose she had to prepare for the moment when she breaks down.
It was a complete shock to me when I saw it happen. Ken told me on the first day that there is no music in this film, and so the actors are very exposed if the emotions aren’t right. But if you and Hayley listen to each other in the scenes, you will find the truth and if you find the truth, then the emotion will be right.
I am a stand-up comedian, and Ken has worked with a few of us. He has said that stand-up comedians are good at communicating. When you are doing a stand-up show, you have to reach out to each person in the theatre. That is why he likes using comedians in his films.
One of the best skills Ken has is that he seems to have the knack for casting the right people in the right roles for his films. He knows what he’s looking for. When you audition, he sees it in you.
It’s quite interesting that Hayley was the first person I auditioned with. He gave us scenarios to improvise. So the first scenario was that you are colleagues at work and you have a break. You notice she has bruising and you figure out she might have trouble with her boyfriend. Just talk about it. Then we went away and auditioned with other actors. We came back together for the last audition and Ken told me that when he told Hayley she had the part, she asked who’s the male lead. When he told her it was me, she said ‘fantastic’. So he must have seen something between us in that early moment.
When you improvised in the first audition, what kind of emotions did you bring? You had just been thrown into that situation.
I do a lot of improvisation in my shows. So basically, what Ken wanted was for us to play real emotions. She [Hayley] kept saying to me, no everything is alright, and I said no I don’t think it is. We had this dialogue developing where we felt it was real.
During the shoot, Ken doesn’t have a big crew. He has cameras around the corner of the room. He shoots on film, so he doesn’t look at the monitor, but stands by the camera watching the action in the room. He sees the shot in his head, how it will edit. He doesn’t tell you what lens he’s got on the camera. So you don’t know how close you are. There were times when I was in my apartment and I would forget that I was doing a film. I would be just be talking to Hayley or cooking food. That first piece of advice he gave us was that we should listen to each other, and play the emotion. If you do that, it will look right.
So was there a lot of improvisation through the film?
No. Paul Laverty is a great scriptwriter. When you watch the film, you may think this has not been written. That it is the character talking. Paul’s writing disappears. Actually, if you do not think of the writer until the end credits, the writer has done an excellent job. Paul gives you space and time to own the words yourself. But if you read the script, you will realise the whole film is scripted.
Also, the way Ken shoots — the scene where Hayley shoplifts, that was a real shop. And Ken didn’t have the shop shut down. There were no extras in that shot. Those were all real people. And he said to Hayley, after this guy pays his gas bill we will do another take. He puts his actors in real situations.
If you haven’t been given a script, how do you know where you character is going? Although I understand the film was shot chronologically.
That’s the thing about shooting in a chronological order. You begin to realise you are living the life of the character, because you don’t know what’s going to happen next. Normally when you work on a play or a film you know how it is going to end.
Honestly, I only got to know about the ending on the penultimate day of the shooting. He pulled me out of the shot and said when you go into the toilet this time try something different. Even Hayley didn’t know how it was going to end. She didn’t see that in the script because he kept it from her.
For Ken, that’s the way to make the situations look real. I think that comes across in all his works. Many actors use different great techniques, but Ken wants to show real raw emotions. It comes from the gut, rather than the head.
How has all of this attention changed your life? Are you getting more film work? I know you were well-known before this on television.
Yes, there has been a lot of interest from people. There are scripts coming to my agent. People have said some amazing things. I was in Poland for the European Film Awards, where I was nominated for best actor. In the end, Michael Caine won the award (for Youth ). It just blows my mind that I was up for an acting award that was eventually given to Michael Caine. I was amazed when I won the British Independent Film Award.
They also nominated you in the most promising newcomer category, and usually that is for 21-year-olds. I know you are a little older than 21.
I am 60. My daughter, who is 10, asked if I was up for best actor. When I said yes, she asked if Michael Fassbender had been nominated as well (for The Light Between Oceans ) and I went yeah. And she went, “Smash him Dad, smash him.” So that’s what I said in my acceptance speech and Michael was sitting at the table. I said to him, “Consider yourself smashed,” and he laughed a lot.
You are suddenly moving in different circles.
Yes, I am. I am so happy. While all these awards are nice, what is really good is that they give the film more power. People can’t just dismiss it. The government can’t just say that’s just Ken Loach being leftist again. The Palme d’Or gave the film the kind of weight it wouldn’t have received otherwise. And hopefully, the message of the film will get the government to change and think about the people who are being affected.
It’s an eye-opener for those who don’t live in England.
Yes.
So now you could be up for a BAFTA and an Oscar nomination.
Variety made a list of Oscar predictions and I was number 20, between Brad Pitt (for Allied ) and Ethan Hawke (for Born to be Blue ). And I was thinking ‘this is insane’.
