What were the reasons for leaving Congress?
To get rid of Chhattisgarh Chief Minister Raman Singh’s administration. I don’t want him to rule for 20 years and plunder all the natural resources as has been happening in his tenure till now. He has no grip over the administration and he is allowing this plunder and corruption of the magnitude you cannot imagine. In spite of being a land of natural resources, the benefits are not trickling down to common people. In the Congress, I was given important responsibilities but when it came to Chhattisgarh, my repeated requests, and reminders [were ignored], somehow people in Delhi did not give me any role in Chhattisgarh. After 2014 debacle, pressure on me increased. Not only my workers but people from all walks of life started telling me that a strong administrator like you is needed to remove this paradox of richest land and poorer people. I was hopeful of change at the state level. I did not ask for a post for me but I asked it to be given to someone who can fight [the Raman Singh government]. But when it did not happen, I concluded that the present Congress set-up in Chhattisgarh will give him a fourth term as a walkover, so I have to step in. Then I decided to form a party and there is tremendous response much beyond my expectations. Only four States across the country are left with two parties set up: Rajasthan Gujarat, Chhattisgarh and Madhya Pradesh. Now Chhattisgarh has a regional set-up. I have reached the last phase of my political life. I have reached a stage where I would like to devote all my time and energy to Chhattisgarh. I don’t want to look at Delhi now.
In last two years, you were cornered in Chhattisgarh PCC. Your son was expelled from the Congress. The State leaders, junior to you, were openly working and making allegations against you and the central leadership of the Congress was silent. Why?
It’s not in my nature to leave with bitterness. I have left [Congress] now, I don’t want to name anybody. I don’t want to talk against anybody. I am disconnected now with all these people [State Congress] and the [Congress] people in Delhi. I don’t wish to go back to Delhi. Everybody knows what has happened to the Congress. They have touched the nadir. They have only 44 MPs and are ruling over only seven percent of the country. Could anybody have ever imagined that the Congress will touch this level? There are people responsible for it, but I don’t want to name them. I want to leave [Congress] as friends.
Is there a room for reconciliation with the Congress? They haven’t terminated your primary membership of the party and you haven’t resigned as a primary member of the Congress?
There is no point in indulging in such formalities. Now Ajit Jogi has formed his own party. But the party formalities of new party are still incomplete. Yes, because I want to follow a democratic procedure. I have asked my people to suggest its name and symbol. We have got 28,000 suggestions in Kotami [the village where he announced his decision to form a new party]. We are waiting for more suggestions. We will announce details very soon.
You shared an extremely special bond with former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi and Congress president Sonia Gandhi. Did she not try to stop you?
I would not like to disclose that. Whatever transpires in confidence between us, I don’t make it public. I did disclose my intentions [of forming a new party] to the supreme leader of my previous party and told her the reasons behind it. This bond was full of affection and admiration beyond description. I wanted her permission.
Did she give you permission? Does that bond still exist?
I cannot elaborate on it. But from my side, I conveyed to her. Things have changed now and I don’t want to look at Delhi. I look only at Chhattisgarh now. For next two years, I want to cover all 20,000 villages in Chhattisgarh.
Was the decision to form a party a unanimous family decision? Did your son Amit Jogi play a big role in it?
It was not a family decision. It was a decision taken by me. I did not consult my son or my wife or anybody else in the family. My wife [Kota MLA] Renu Jogi was upset over it. Had I consulted her and Amit before taking a decision, something else would have come out. This [the decision to form a new party] did not surprise Amit and he has agreed to come along with me but my wife will always hold a grudge against me for not consulting her. I was not even sure if she would come to Kotami program. But I had consulted some of my close associates, supporters, and my elder brother before announcing my decision.
You are forming a new party at this age. We have seen senior leaders leaving the Congress, but they failed to carve out space for themselves except V.P.Singh and Mamata Banerjee. Even a mass leader like Sharad Pawar was limited to six to seven districts of Maharashtra.
No. Many people have carved out space for themselves after leaving the Congress and many of them are successful for example Jagan Mohan Reddy,Mamata Banerjee. Even Mr. Pawar was somewhere successful in establishing his own party. Gone are the days when people would leave the Congress and would come back on their knees.
Was it a gamble or a calculated move?
It was a calculated move. At this stage of my life, I cannot afford to gamble on it.
Are all the sections of the population in Chhattisgarh with you? There is a perception that the tribals and Satmanis (SC) are your only support base.
I do admit that in my schemes of things the one who is the most deprived would be helped first. It gives an impression that I am only for so and so sections. But after seeing me out of power since 2003, that impression has been removed. I am for everybody.
You said you have 19 MLAs with you and 25000 people were said to be expected to come to Kotami. But only four MLAs came.
It’s a matter of strategy. Before taking this decision I did some exercise and got a survey conducted about the MLAs in Chhattisgarh. There is a trend in Chhattisgarh that the sitting MLAs are always defeated. I should not make it MLA-centric. I had requested them [supporting MLAs] not to come to Kotami. I did not want them to be exposed. But four MLAs came there because of their affection and love for me. I did not want them to come. I don’t go by the support of the MLAs, I know who all are with me. Some in the BJP are also talking to me. As of now, I have given freedom to everybody [his supporting MLAs] to go to PCC meetings, even to my wife. It [Kotmi meeting] was a meeting of my elders in Tribal society. Three to four thousand people were expected and 1,500 of my supporters from different parts of the State were invited. But we received 28,000 slips after the meeting which means there were more than 28000 people there.
How would you react to the allegation against you of fixing Antagad byelection in 2014 and of being hand in glove with CM Raman Singh?
As far as Antagad tape is concerned, I have filed the case of defamation against the reporter because the tape was totally doctored. As far as Raman Singh is concerned, has there been anybody in Chhattisgarh, apart from me, who has targeted him directly? If he would have been friendly with me, then why did he file appeals in the case against my son? Is he not targeting me? There is a case related to my caste in which the court ruled in my favor but Raman Singh filed appeals against it. When I met with an accident, he made a bold promise that the State government will incur all the expenses. But in all these years, not a single penny has been reimbursed by him. Whereas, I can site a number of examples of those [Complicity with Ramani Singh] on the other side [State Congress]. He has continuously helped Bhupesh Baghel [Chhattisgarh PCC president] and T.S.Singh Deo [Leader of Opposition in the Chhattisgarh Assembly] and obliged to their requests.
