Chairman and Chief Executive of the media conglomerate MOBY GROUP which operates in South Asia, Central Asia, Middle East and Africa, Saad Mohseni is Afghanistan’s topmost media entrepreneur. Named by Time Magazine as one of the 100 most influential people in the world, by Foreign Policy magazine as among 100 Global Thinkers, and by the BBC as one of the 10 men globally championing gender equality, Mr. Mohseni has modernised the media scene in Afghanistan through recruitment of many women journalists to work in the fields, bold television programs unprecedented in the country, and other initiatives for social change through the media.
Excerpts from an interview:
Can you summarize for us what exactly is happening on the ground in Afghanistan?
Well, let's start with the airport. The airport is an absolute mess. It's a catastrophe brought on by Ashraf Ghani’s decision to flee the country in the manner that he did, which triggered the collapse of the entire system. Also, as a byproduct of the US government’s and the international community's inability to manage flights coming and going, and to an extent the Taliban's inability to police the perimeter of the airport, we now have this disastrous situation. Although there are a lot of people responsible for the mess we are in today, Ashraf Ghani and the US must bear the primary responsibility.
Thanks to them, it turned out to be a fait accompli for the Taliban. They were told: “Listen, we got 6000 troops at the airport. We got to get people out. You guys control the 20,000 people surrounding the airport as best you can.” They are probably the least to blame. It was an avoidable disaster. It is a disgrace that it has happened and that we have to deal with it today. And it'll get worse, by the way.
What about the situation outside Kabul? We hear about the resistance shaping up in the Panjshir Valley, but don't hear much about other provinces.
Panjshir valley has seen some clashes. We reported yesterday (Sunday) some claims of places being liberated from the Taliban by local forces. The Panjshir resistance is led mostly by Ahmad Massoud, the son of Ahmad Shah Massoud. Some other government officials are also involved, the most prominent among them being Amrullah Saleh, the former Vice President, who has now declared himself the legitimate president of Afghanistan. They have under their command some forces that fought for the Afghan government, Special Operations guys. They seem to have helicopters flying in and out of Kabul airport, ironically. They are not totally surrounded by the Taliban though it may seem so. Apparently, they can get ammunition and supplies via helicopters. There have also been clashes in the east of the country involving ISIS. There have been some civil disturbances, people protesting and coming out onto the streets. But generally speaking, the situation seems to be pretty much under the control of the Taliban. They have managed to consolidate their rule over the country. They are starting to provide basic services. The customs offices are open for products coming and going. I think people are now able to travel between Pakistan and Afghanistan. I think Central Asia opened up yesterday (Sunday), mostly for goods. So you are starting to see things back to normal. The banks have not yet been opened until yesterday (Sunday) afternoon. We just have to wait and see as to when that happens.
Have you been speaking to any major political players in the last couple of weeks, particularly the Taliban, directly or indirectly?
We talk to everyone regularly - President Karzai, Abdullah Abdullah, other government officials. We also speak to the Taliban obviously. Either directly or indirectly. We speak to civil society folks as well. Our news guys are in touch with all the players. As Afghans, we are concerned about the future of the country. We are trying to figure out what are the best ways of engaging with this new movement that is going to take charge. Afghanistan is facing three crises: a political crisis, a humanitarian crisis affecting hundreds of thousands of internally displaced people and around two million people rushing to get out of the country. Out of these, fifty to hundred thousand will make it out through Kabul airport. Then we have an economic crisis, which is going to have a devastating impact on the nation. All the development assistance meant for 35 million people, all those projects, are on hold now. The world needs to pay attention to these issues. Millions will be forced to leave the country and they will end up in Europe, for example. If the drug trade gets out of control, Europe in particular is going to suffer. Or if terrorist organizations flock to Afghanistan, its impact will be global. These are big challenges and we have got our work cut out for the coming weeks.
Since two days, we have been hearing a lot about the presence of ISIS in Kabul. How critical is this?
I think they have always had a presence in Kabul. They have their sleeper cells. They have also infiltrated some of the institutions due to which they have been effective in detonating bombs and killing people. They have also been active in the eastern provinces of Afghanistan. They are not as dominant as the Taliban but will try to create their own narrative. There is no doubt that some Taliban members are members of ISIS too. Some of the Taliban’s infrastructure and knowhow are used by ISIS. But the danger for the Taliban is that the ISIS will try and peel away supporters and fighters of the Taliban to join their ranks. ISIS will be a threat to Afghanistan and the Taliban in the foreseeable future.
You own and run a lion's share of media in Afghanistan. What are your concerns right now, as an entrepreneur who has invested heavily in the media in Afghanistan?
I think continuity of what we have been doing for twenty years in the same way is our main concern. The lives and wellbeing of our staff are very important for us. A lot of our staff members are leaving or have left, and we will give them the support they need in order to provide them with safe passage to the airport and to facilitate their travel to other countries. In terms of continuity, it is important for us to keep our doors open and keep broadcasting and reporting on facts as we have done so far. We would like to remain the truth tellers that we have been, championing the narratives and values that are important to us, such as women's rights, freedom of expression and minority rights.
Are you still sending women reporters to the field?
A lot of our women reporters have gone to the airport to leave. However, we don't want any changes to the way we operate the business. We have cut back on some of our more risqué programming like music, film clips, with lots of flesh and so forth, and some of the more controversial soap operas. But pretty much everything else is business as usual in terms of our transmissions. We will continue to present our programs and put female reporters on the streets doing interviews or reporting as we have done in the past.
Have you received any clear assurance from Taliban that they would not interfere with the way you run your media outlets?
Yes. They have visited us, were interviewed by us. As a matter of fact, their deputy Cultural Commissioner was on our morning program. They came to our station two days ago (Saturday) and gave us verbal assurances. It is a strange time for the Taliban as well. They have to launch a charm offensive and win hearts and minds. They have to convince the political establishment to work with them. They have to convince the world that they are ready to do business with it. So I think they will be keen to project an image of themselves as moderate and forward-thinking. Right now, we have to wait for the formation of the government and for the media directives. It is too early to speculate.
Are you seeing any signs that Taliban 2.0 will be more benign, inclusive, and tolerant?
It is mixed, but overall the signs are good. This could be just a strategy to win over support both domestically and internationally. But the signs are more positive because there is a realization among the senior members of the Taliban that the country has changed. You have to remember that Afghan population, which was 21 million, is now 35 million, an increase of 70%. 65% of the population is under the age of 20, and these people never experienced a Taliban type rule. They are engaged with the media. They use social media – WhatsApp and Facebook etc. Even the young foot soldiers of the Taliban are using these platforms though the kind of content they consume may be different. I am not talking about city-dwellers, but about the rural population. They all use modern technologies and platforms. I think the Taliban also realized it. They should realize that, given how vulnerable the country is economically, they will need international recognition and support. If the world stops assisting and working with the Afghan government, you are going to have millions of people starving.
How inclusive can a Taliban establishment get? On the one hand, they talk about an inclusive government, on the other they insist on implementation of Sharia laws.
Exactly. They have a constituency that will demand a more conservative approach. They have to balance that with a world that expects more moderate, more liberal policies, and approaches. They will have to reconcile those two opposite poles. The Taliban cannot ignore what the core base is going to demand, while at the same time trying to sort of balance what the world is asking for. I think one of the reasons why it is important for people to engage, including your government, is because there is this window to work with them so that they do have an inclusive approach. I know there have been discussions with Hamid Karzai and Abdullah Abdullah and other political leaders, but this is the time to tell the Taliban: “Listen, if you are more engaged globally, you will have a much easier time governing. And this will be a win-win, it will be a win for your political movement and a win for the world, because the world doesn't have to deal with refugees, with your drugs and with your terrorism.” I think they realize that if they mistreat people, the opposition will grow in the country against their rule.
Who are the Taliban in terms of demographics? How different are they now compared to then?
There is a political wing and a military wing. The senior leadership has always been predominantly from the greater Kandahar area, although they do have the Haqqanis and others. What they have attempted to do of late is to include others. They made inroads into the Tajiks and the Uzbeks. The result of that was a total collapse of the North in their favor. The Kandahar Taliban are still the dominant ones, and they are seen as more conservative, and perhaps more independent of Pakistan, unlike, say, the Haqqani network. So we will perhaps see this tug of war within the Taliban as to which group will prevail ultimately.
India is nowhere in the picture as far as Afghanistan is concerned. How do you look at it?
India's blunder was that it supported individuals rather than Afghanistan. They doubled down on a few individuals and backed them to the hilt. I remember attending conferences in Delhi, and I always argued that they should deal with Afghanistan and its institutions rather than with individuals. I think India also has a crucial role. The Taliban don't want to be beholden just to Pakistan. Now that they are in power, they would like to deal with whoever they want to. At the Raisina Conference two years ago, I suggested to many of our friends in Delhi that they should engage the Taliban, there is no reason for them not to. I am sure that the Taliban will welcome it.
But right now, it seems India is not even speaking to the Russians and the Chinese who are actually involved? India is still talking to the Americans who are nowhere in the scene.
The Indian government has to be pragmatic, and it has to deal with things on the ground. India can play a crucial role. It is close to the Russians and the Central Asians, and to Iran. India is a funder of big projects in Afghanistan, which will help not just the Taliban, but the people of Afghanistan. To be honest with you, the Taliban don't want to be a client of Pakistan's forever. For them, closeness to Pakistan is not an end in itself, but the means to an end. The Indians ought to reassess the way they tackle this and become a little bit more aggressive in terms of their outreach with the folks in Kabul today.
I think it's important for our friends in India to know that the Afghans have always appreciated India's interest in Afghanistan. The connection to Afghanistan is not just economic, but it's also cultural and social. People prefer visiting the hospitals India, watching an Indian Bollywood film to any other type of film. When they have the opportunity, they would like to visit India rather than any other country. I think that people to people engagements are important. They have also been appreciative of all the assistance given to the Afghan nation. It is important for India to think long term. They have to align their interests with the Afghan nation rather than with some individuals. India has to broaden its outreach in the country and also in the region.
Shajahan Madampat is an Abu Dhabi-based writer and cultural commentator
