In June, Seyran Ates, a Turkish-German lawyer and author, opened the first ‘liberal mosque’ in Germany where Muslims of all sects and men and women pray together and where homosexuals and women without headscarves are permitted. A fatwa from Egypt has been issued against Ms. Ates, 54, author of the controversial book Islam Needs a Sexual Revolution , and she has been facing death threats. But, she believes that Muslim conservatives will eventually understand the purpose of her initiative: to protect Islam from being taken over by extremists. Excerpts from an interview at the Ibn Rushd-Goethe mosque in Berlin:
When did you think of this idea and how difficult was it to implement it?
I was a member of the German Islam Conference from 2006-2009. There were five Muslim organisations in it then. But the Interior Minister said that they will include not only organisations, but also individuals—Muslims who speak for non-organised Muslims.
ADVERTISEMENT
I was one of the non-organised Muslims, especially as a women’s rights writer and lawyer. I realised that Islam had been taken over by these organisations and shaped in a conservative way. They didn’t accept people like me as Muslim. Finally, the Interior Minister said, “It’s nice to have you here, but we cannot have you as a partner for politics to integrate Islam in Germany because you are an individual and I don’t know for how many people you speak. You have to organise yourself.”
I accepted his argument and the idea was born. The first meeting was in 2009 at the time of Ramadan. It has taken eight years to realise the concept because most of the people (who came together) were frightened of attacks from conservatives.
I knew that people would attack us, but I couldn’t imagine that Turkey as a state would start a fight against us (Turkey’s main Islamic authority, Diyanet, said that the new mosque’s practices aim at depraving the religion).
ADVERTISEMENT
In your career, you have criticised orthodox Muslims and their treatment of women. And now you have started this mosque. Do you think that the best way to fight conservative views is by going back to religion?
This is not going back to religion. Our mosque is an answer to political Islam. The world is threatened by Islamic terror. As a political activist, I used to criticise radicals and conservatives if they did anti-democratic things.
But now I have decided that I also have a responsibility towards my religion—to do something against the terrorists who take my religion and make it a religion of terrorism. Liberals have to stand up and take our religion back from the terrorists.
How do you respond to those who say terrorism has no religion?
That’s true. But you can’t deny that terrorists of the Islamic State, the Taliban, Boko Haram and al-Qaeda shout ‘Allahu Akbar’ and kill people. They say they pray five times a day. They build mosques. They fast during Ramadan. If they do all these things and call themselves Muslim, I cannot deny that they are Muslims. Only Allah decides that. But I can criticise them for what they are doing.
You said liberals have to “take back” the religion from the extremists. Does that mean there is not enough criticism of these terrorists from the Muslim community?
No, there is not. You can see that in our case. Every three or four days, we had something written against us. Did they write a fatwa against the Islamic State or al-Qaeda? I can’t remember. It means that authorities don’t condemn terror enough. Neither do Muslims.
Who are the people who come to this mosque?
It’s a mixed bunch. We have people who live close to the place, and individuals from other countries. Two weeks ago, we had a young man from Britain who did the azan for us and it was fantastic. He was a Sufi.
How are you responding to the threats?
Most threats come from Turkish people. I have been living under police protection for 11 years. After a while, when we have shown that we have done something good for our religion, they will leave us alone, I’m sure.
I have also started a campaign to stop extremism. We will need one million signatures and then we want the European Commission to discuss the paper.
Europe is forgetting its own values and the idea of freedom. We have to fight for European values and the values of democracy.
So you are attempting to fight against extremism from both within and outside Islam?
Exactly. I say to all liberal Muslims, you are as much responsible as conservative Muslims to stop terrorism. It’s not enough to sit in front of the television and say it’s not okay.
Are women required to wear headscarves to your mosque?
No, they don’t have to. But if they want to, they can.
So you think it should be a choice?
Absolutely.
How would you respond to the burkha debate in Germany?
I would forbid wearing the burkha. Even the most traditional interpretations of Koran don’t have anything to make us accept burkha, nikab and hijab. If women want to, it’s their choice. But it’s not Islamic.
But if the state bans the burkha, will it count as a choice for women?
Burkha cannot be discussed in the context of freedom. This is not a choice; it’s a demonstration of gender discrimination.
Do you think more people will speak up because of initiatives like yours?
Yes, this is a revolution. We can see that in our enemies’ reaction. They wouldn’t attack us like they are doing if they were not frightened. But, we also see it in the support we have got from people who want to live like us.