Interview with Tarun Gogoi
The Assam Chief Minister spoke to Siddharth Varadarajan, Editor of The Hindu, at his office in Dispur on Saturday about the revival of the ‘anti foreigner issue’ in Assamese politics in the wake of the recent clashes between Bodo and Muslim groups in Kokrajhar that turned lakhs of villagers into refugees. Excerpts:
Six weeks after the first killings in Kokrajhar, tens of thousands of displaced persons remain in relief camps but the fear of renewed violence appears to have subsided. Instead, there is talk of a revival of the so-called “anti-foreigner” agitation in the rest of Assam. As Chief Minister, how do you assess the possibility of the revival of this agitation. Is this something that worries you?
They are trying to. I do feel they are trying to do. But I have my doubt. It is not easy to do. It is not easy to revive the sentiment …
But the recent bandh was quite successful.
Any bandh in Assam is successful! If anybody gives a bandh [call], it will be 100 per cent successful. The success of a bandh is not a yardstick of success or mass support… Anybody, a small group or even if a community gives a bandh call where other communities are not involved, there also they observe the bandh.
When you say “they,” who do you feel is behind the attempt to raise the “foreigners” issue again? Is it mostly the Asom Gana Parishad? Or the Bharatiya Janata Party?
The BJP is number one.... But we will also expose them. [We will ask] what you did when you were in power? How many foreigners did you detect and act against? Now just because elections are approaching in 2014, they are making this an issue.
What is the Assam government’s own information on the number of non-citizens living and working in the State? Have you done any internal study about migration, say over the past five years? Has there been any significant rise in the number of undocumented migrants from Bangladesh?
I have all along been saying that migration is on the decline. Where does migration take place? Where there is ample job opportunity, where there is land that is available. Today, land availability is not there. Earlier, why did they come? Today, [that is] why they do not come? Now migration has been there since the British came. Migrations here started during the development of the tea, coal, oil industries in Assam. Biharis and other groups came. Then to construct railway line who came? The workers were Biharis, in clerical jobs there were Bengalis. Then again during British times, more Bengalis came in because there was a push to grow more food.
Now population growth in Assam according to the 2001 Census was less than the national average. Yes, the Muslim population has risen, there is no doubt. Just as even in the tea garden areas, population has risen. This is because of illiteracy. Even in the tribal communities. Illiteracy is the number one cause of higher population growth rates. Now, when the AGP was in power and they had a chance to prove they were different. They could have registered cases [against foreigners living here]. Why did they not do it? In the case of voters list A,B,C, D, so many lists were made to exclude the foreigners.... The Election Commission also tried. How much could they do?
I suppose so far it has proved difficult to disentangle citizens from migrants.
See the number of cases. Three lakh cases are pending. Not that they have all been identified as foreigners… Many of the people they are talking about, they are Assamese, they speak Assamese. And “migration” has become a convenient issue for someone to raise for political ends.
When one of the Bodo leaders was arrested recently [after the Kokrajhar violence], he admitted, ‘Why should I indulge in attacking the Muslims when I myself have engaged them in my business.’ The same thing is true elsewhere in Bodoland also. All development activities, construction, you will find migrants.
Now, in Guwahati there has been migration. To construct your house, to buy chicken, you are dealing with migrants. Now they are all foreigners and they are engaging them! Those who are agitating on this issue, whether AGP or BJP leaders, their pandals, their houses were also constructed by them … In the peak [of the anti-foreigners agitation], I myself saw the AGP building was constructed by them, those who they allege are illegal migrants. We do not say [this]. The politics they are doing is wrong. They say that Tarun Gogoi is giving protection. But [the Muslims] have not voted me for last two elections…
How worried are you about the growth of the All India United Democratic Front (AIUDF) of Badruddin Ajmal among Muslim voters in Assam?
There is a wrong perception that Muslims always vote for the Congress. They never voted more than 50 per cent. Out of 26 [‘Muslim dominated’ seats in an Assembly of 126], the maximum Hiteswar Saikia got was 15 … Second highest I got that time they were with me in 2001. I won 13 of the seats; the other 13 were individuals with the Samjwawadi Party, independents, etc.
The AIUDF has brought all these individuals on one platform. In 1996, we got 9, and 11 of those seats were won by the AGP. Where is the question of Muslims all along being with the Congress? But [the Opposition] goes on blaming the Congress. I am not worried. The same accusation [of bias] is made against me by some Muslims.
Now just because I am Hindu does that mean I should play Hindu politics? As far I am concerned, if Hindus are also accusing me of ‘vote bank politics’ and Muslims are accusing of me playing the ‘Hindu card,’ this means that I am balanced…
Some of your critics have said the requirement of proof of land documentation for rehabilitation of the inmates of refugees from the Kokrajhar violence is unfair.
It is the first stage. If he has land, he had a house, he had properties, these make immediate rehabilitation easier. Now 2.40 lakh people have already returned to their homes. Others are also returning... But one problem the government is facing is you cannot rehabilitate people back in forest areas... A good percentage of [the victims of the violence] were living there.
Why did the Army take so long to deploy in Kokrajhar after the violence started and you asked for assistance?
It took very long, five days. All kinds of procedural problems were there. The Defence Secretary told us he did not have the authority. So I myself had to speak to the Defence Minister and then the Army came out.
But you feel the situation there is under control now?
Yes, now it is controlled.
We keep hearing there are a lot of arms there….
Arms are there … Arms are there with every insurgent group. Whether ULFA, the… KLO [Kamtapur Liberation Organisation]. Even with the ceasefire groups, there are anti-talk [factions]. … though we have recovered 80 per cent, their strength is reduced by 80 per cent. [But] they cannot cause damage, as much damage.
siddharth.varadarajan@thehindu.co.in
Keywords: Assam ethnic violence, Kokrajhar riots, Bodo tribals, Tarun Gogoi, ULFA
Mr.Tarun Gogoi says, Muslims have not voted for him in last two elections. Does that mean he should not protect them as the citizens of assam? Being a CM, he cannot say such irresponsible words. He should frame policies in order to respect interest of each and every citizen whether assamese or so called foreigner. The issue that has burned the state, can be solved in phased manner with the support and willingness of State and local government.
Let us see what the chief minister has accepted .All bandhs in Assam
is successful as most of the general public observes it .That ,
earlier migration were in large numbers but the rate of migration has
reduced .That, though his party was in the power for more that 40
years in Assam .He was not even able to impart basic of knowledge
about the benefits of family planing to the most wanted people and to
minorities due to which there is population rise in those communities.
So , if he knows all these problems .What security measures has he
provided to decrease the bandhs.Where are the strategies to tackle
immigration and the people who have already staying there .Why was he
or his party silent for so many years.What steps has he taken for the
upliftment of the weaker actions of the society.It is not he is
suffering but the common people that is pained.It is very easy to
accept his mistake but where are the concrete actions .
the peace in kakrajher is only in the cm's lips... still those four
districts are burning.....
@Altaf, You are dead wrong. You've been brainwashed by Western imposed history. India is not a country of migrants. India is a country of Indigenous Indians. Sure, we've had invaders and looters. But they sure weren't welcome. Migrants and Refugees connotes they are welcome - legally for a TBD period of time.
It is strange a Chief Minister is blaming every body else for all the troubles in his State. Except a brief period of AGP rule, it is Congress which has been ruling the State. They have failed miserably in every aspect. They allowed Bangaladeshis from across the border into Assam unabated. There is no development in the State, which has resulted in Assamese searching for jobs elsewhere upto South India. At this rate Assam will lose its ethnicity and Language in India. I am only sorry that the CM of Assam does not seem to see the writing on the wall.
@Faisal: May be it is blown out of propotion but if things are not blown out of propotion then these pseudo secular political parties will never react(as the history is evident of this). It's is hard enough to manage different religions and creeds in country itself anymore strain will just bring a complete breakdown.
@Altaf Khatib: Yes India was the Golden sparrow back then but now it is not even one fourth of that. Developing countries need migrant engineer, scientists but developed countries need cheap labour. If cheap labour is allowed in our country then the wages of already present poverty ridden labour class of India will shrink and they will suffer. We need to care about our existing poverty ridden population first.
India is a country of migrants. 90% of its current ihabitants are migrant from diffrenet parts of the planet and that's what reflects in our diversity. We are diversed nation, have many tribes, cast,subcast,, several religion etc. migrantion isuue is not new to India. India was considered golden sparrow earlier and people from all over the globe used to traverse through India in pursuit of better livelihood, Thats what happend in case of Bangladeshi migrant too. If we are really serious about this issue, just seal the border and talk to the Bangladesh govt., make it diplomatic issue. Rehabilitate all the inmates now as government is unable to differentiate now who is migrant and who is indeginous. Make sure that further influx of migrants will not take place in future. Giving it communal and political colour will prove countr-productive and will aggravate the problem further. There will be humanitarian crisis if displaced people are not rehabilitated urgently. Regds,Altaf Khatib, JED,KSA
@Tejaswini .. I do agree, may be I overstepped a bit by equating the issue of 'domestic immigrant issue' with 'foreign immigrant issue'. But you must realize that the line separating them is pretty thin. When a faction starts demanding a separate xyz land then the idea is that they treat the rest of the countrymen as foreigners.. The real problem as with most of the issues in the country is poverty and lack of employment opportunities which then get milked to the extreme by these so called leaders for petty gains. Yes illegal immigration does puts extra burden on the limited resources of the state and needs to be curbed. my sole point being that the issue had been blown out of proportion and to term it as the root cause of what ails Assamese people is a folly.
@Faisal @Sadaqat What you said is true, but still it doesn't make 'Illegal Infiltrators' from Bangladesh as Indians. However much these 'Biharis', 'Maharashtrians', 'North Indians'; and South Indians want to quarrel amongst themselves, they are 'Indians& and India is a country bound by one constitution. It doesn't matter , whether these quarreling 'Indians' are hindu, muslims, sikhs, christians, parsis, etc.,
For all the injustices done by our politicians, one day they will be answerable to us(I hope) , but No Bangladeshis!!!!! That's not hate, but plain truth!! We have 1.3 billion mouths to feed - 1,300,000,000!!!
So please don't try to mix 'Bangladeshis Bandhus& with Indians. We have enough people in our country to take care of before serving others.
@ Faisal The issue here is not based on religious bifurcation. It is based on native and illegal migrant division. During Indira Gandhi time India stretched it's helping hands to save Bangladeshis against Pakistanis. Currently the condition is illegal Bangladeshi immigrants are swallowing the helping hands lent by India once upon a time. Please do not merge 'Biharis' in Maharashtra or 'North Indians' in southern India issue with the Assam issue as former cases didn't involve any foreign immigrants issues. I agree that Assam had a violent history. Yes, 'too many swords trying to fit in a single sheath' and 'illegal Bangladeshi immigrants' issue is a mighty sword fighting to fit in the sheath
As a non-Assamese what i dont understand is why should Bodos make an issue of the muslim immigrants if their proportion is not exceptionally tangible relative to the rest of the population.What has kept the issue awake all these decades since Bjp(and rss et al) have at best ineffective presence there at least electorally.Besides the normal stereotypes associated with muslims is not as strong in assam as in say north India..Notable is the fact that Muslims and a tribal community at loggerheads is not only rare in India but elsewhere too.
Illegal migration into Assam from outside India should be 'zero' now, and serious attempts have to be made to deport those staying illegally in Assam. This is a serious resource and security issue.
@Rahul, @hari ... It will always be convenient to blame 'them' or the 'outsiders' for all the maladies that plague a society whether its accusing 'Biharis' in Maharashtra or 'North Indians' in southern India instead of introspecting .. What one needs to do is take into perspective that Assam had a long history of violence with separatist factions like ULFA and KLO been given too much leeway.. its just a case of too many swords trying to fit in a single sheath with all these groups including politicians vying for more power..
Mr. Gagoi rightly pointed out, it is the poor people who population is increasing rapidly in India. But some political parties consider poor people as vote bank.
The issue of Illegal immigrants will top national news, as India heads towards a developed economy. A long-term solution should be sought to it. Protection of national interest and security should be prime importance to all political parties.
One do not need a certification to ascertain whether there is illegal migration or not. And, essentially, everyone, who write, read and understand about the entire fiasco around 'illegal Bangladesi' is not a question of religion but more of a question on the identity and social existence of people who lived there since generations. It is good to think about an Utopian world where there is no boundaries and religion but that is rubbish as that is not reality. When you walk down under the Sun and your feet in sticky mud, you realise that it is your land, your country. And, no illegal foreigner, be it Bangladesi, Chinese or Pakistani or Burmese or Nepalese, should be allowed on Indian land. The rhetoric CM of Assam has said nothing new but one hope that after a landslide victory in election he at least do something too. Assam agitation was not a farce but those who led it and later betrayed people are despots and cheated the trust of people.
@Sadaqat , 1971 was a different story. When pakistan was killing the people there. But that does not mean that we will always open the door for people to come to India illegally ? should we. We should worry about our people, our country first, instead of placing our loyalties somewhere.
It is the tendency of all politicians in Assam, including to go soft on Bangladeshi immigrants as they can guarantee victory in ballot boxes. Lack of political willingness to address the grievances will only led to restless among the people. The politicians have to answer on day.
Mr. Sadaqat, perhaps the circumstances of the two different time durations you quote needs to be considered. Earlier it was a humanitarian gesture to save the lives of thousands from genocide but when generosity is taken for granted and laws are broken to steal your resources then it is illegal grabbing or rather looting. Isn't it ? India is still for Bangladesh and Bangladeshi's cause but illegally i think ... NO.
There was a time,(during formation of Bangladesh) when the same hate mongers and agitators of 'Illegal Bangladeshis', where all praising and welcoming thousands of Bangla bandhus into India. The were all praise worthy of Indra Gandhi and were extending all possible facilities to the Bangla migrants. And now taking 180 degree shift the same people are trying to revive the agitation against the once welcomed and now illegal, migrants. The people need to understand this dirty politics of opportunism and do not play in hate mongers.
It is too good when compare to other and well serving to society
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