The latest attack on TV channel Puthiya Thalaimurai serves as yet another example of the growing intolerance and efforts to muzzle free speech in Tamil Nadu. A look at our live discussion on freedom of expression.
We have with us, our reporter Sruthisagar Yamunan, Vasundhara Sirnate, from The Hindu Centre for Politics and Public Policy and Sudha Ramalingam, advocate and noted social activist.
4:59
Comment From Guest
how far can the government go curb free speech . In era of social network they should walk the talk with free speech rights
4:59
Comment From P.K.Senthil kumaran
Is our police intelligence so weak to crack a mob which bully a media house on weekly basis?
5:01
Vasundhara Sirnate : This government has gone pretty far in recent months to curb free speech and expression. Mostly for cultural reasons linked to reasons of public order
5:01
Sruthisagar : In this case, the attack on free speech has been from fringe groups presumably without State support. In this case, the person who has surrendered before a court in Madurai claims to be from a little-known group called Hindu Ilaignar Sena.
5:02
Vasundhara Sirnate : Our police strength and level of efficacy differs form state to state. But intelligence failures are still happening although after 26/11, things were said to have become better,
5:02
Comment From Dennis S. Jesudasan
the very fact that the bomb was hurled in Chennai and a person surrendered in Madurai within four hours shows how every step has been planned to the finish
5:03
Sudha Ramalingam : The right to freedom of speech and expression ought to be protected zealously. But the State now is on a spree to silence as much as the attackers.
5:03
Sruthisagar : But that does not absolve the State from its duty to protect free speech. A duty which the police has failed to do in this incident.
5:03
Vasundhara Sirnate : Before we jump to any conclusions about this particular issue, let me flag a couple of points. It is true that these are rogue elements. However, many such groups across India are drawing their power socially just by the mere fact that there is a right-wing ggovernment in power, which has often reflected a more masculine form of HIndutva.
5:04
Comment From Albert Devakaram
Attacks on freedom of press seems to be frequent in India. What steps can we take to curb this menace?
5:04
Vasundhara Sirnate : If i were to look at the big picture I would say that along side legal curbing of free speech and expression, there are these social groups which are now trying to act as 'bahubalis' or enforcers of the political will.
5:04
Sudha Ramalingam : True Vasundhara but even when we had the NDA in power we saw the deterioration and intolerance
5:05
Sudha Ramalingam : I feel that the publicity and coverage negative news gets promotes a culture of violence
5:05
Vasundhara Sirnate : Yes we did. However, in recent months the censorship we are seeing of citizens and their speech and expression has become more pronounced.
5:05
Comment From Senthil
Whether the media has the rights to discuss on the tradition which they are following for these many years in name of Freedom of Speech
5:06
Vasundhara Sirnate : In the US, Freedom of the Press is a bit different from Freedom of Speech available to citizens.
5:06
Comment From Albert Devakaram
The fringe elements need to be nipped in the bud.
5:06
Vasundhara Sirnate : This is because the press is seen as the pillar that holds up both state and society. We don't really have that in India. We don't have special protection for the Press.
5:07
Sudha Ramalingam : Discussions now are no more rational or unbiased they are moderated by vested interests fanning the intolerant
5:07
Vasundhara Sirnate : Fringe elements are a long standing reality in India. They have always existed. However, the last two decades have seen an intensification of such elements.
5:07
Sruthisagar : What is quite disconcerting is how organisations owing allegiance to the extreme Right have suddenly become very proactive in a State like Tamil Nadu. Starting with the Perumal Murugan issue, a number of incidents of social censorship have been witnessed in a matter of few months. There is a pattern emerging which the State has to realise quickly.
5:08
Comment From Sundar
In the name of freedom of speech, can anyone ignore the sentiments of religion and wound them?
5:08
Vasundhara Sirnate : Actually I think citizens need to understand this pattern faster. The State knows exactly what it is doing. This is a very clever state.
5:09
Sudha Ramalingam : Words do not break bones. what is wounding sentiments, hearing the other side is basic principle of justice.
5:09
Comment From Sundar
Needs a clear answer...
5:09
Comment From prabu
press sovereignty should be kept alive ,,,whom so ever should be punished
5:09
Vasundhara Sirnate : So yes there are restrictions on freedom of speech. However, we must understand that when it comes to religion, even if I say something innocuous and innocent, SOMEONE on the planet will get offended. So for me the question becomes, why don't people have the emotional capacity to deal with someone offending them. I am offended everyday by so many things in India (not linked to religion), but I deal with it because I know things can be better,
5:09
Comment From Guest
Perhaps this is the result of pent up emotions...
5:10
Comment From Guest
what is the meaning of N E W S
5:10
Comment From P.K.Senthil kumaran
Is the deep rooted caste ism join hands with religious extremism in recent days (Take the example of Perumal Murugan and other writers)? Politics, Policies, Education system in recent past paved way for the superficial in-tolerant society.
5:10
Comment From Sundar
If the words affect an individual, will anyone go smiling as said by Thiruvalluvar?
5:10
Sruthisagar : Social practices should not be immune to scrutiny and debate. In the Puthia Thalaimurai case, what frustrated the fringe elements was a debate on the relevance/need of Mangalsutra/Thali for women. This is a legitimate topic of debate and in fact is not a new one. Tamil Nadu was the pioneer of self-respect marriages which recognised and gave legal status to marriages without rituals.
5:11
Comment From Albert Devakaram
Agreed religious sentiments ought o be respected, but we must remember that the right to freedom of speech is fundamental and needs to be protected at all times and in all circumstances.
5:11
Comment From Vinu Pillai
It's really cruel that some miscreants are ruining the humanitarian structure of the society. How long they want to keep public in shadow and keep them away from reality. Attacking is always condemned.
5:12
Sruthisagar : Without debate, reforms are impossible.
5:12
Sudha Ramalingam : Mangalsutra is not a must in the Hindu Marriage at all, it is the saptapati which is an important element for Hindu Mariage
5:13
Sudha Ramalingam : yes debates are necessary but not the ones the media is promoting of late. Healthy debates should put forth both sides of the coin.
5:13
Comment From Sundar
PT exceeded their limit..
5:13
Comment From ramasubramanian
This channel has the habit of always taking subjects which are harming one religion and debeators were also have the negative and one sided view about the religion without knowing what it is
5:13
Comment From Senthil
If the PT have the gut to have the discussions on the dressings and the life style few religion in the name of Freedom of Speech
5:13
Comment From Deepa
There was an earlier report that a Vijay TV talk show on burqa was not allowed to be filmed. But, many mainstream media didn't take it up then. Is the intensity of media coverage directly proportional to the severity of the assault?
5:14
Comment From Guest
Govt will again say that no one will be spare but actually everyone will be spare
5:14
Comment From Albert Devakaram
What is the significance of saptapati?
5:14
Comment From Khalid Ahmed
Attacking is not good in taste, it should be condemned
5:14
Comment From Senthil
Reforms is needed only the growth of the nation not in the religious things
5:14
Sudha Ramalingam : Taking seven steps around the 'holy fire'
5:14
Comment From guest
"If the PT have the gut to have the discussions on the dressings and the life style few religion in the name of Freedom of Speech" @ Senthil.. I second it.
5:15
Comment From Krishna
It's not that because NDA is in power these things are happening. Films like The Da Vinci Code and Dam 999 was banned when the Congress was power.
5:15
Comment From Namrata
I believe attacking someone/an idea/a debate comes about not because of any sense of cultural confidence but from a deep sense of insecurity and aggression which is then dominated by a desire to control
5:15
Sruthisagar : The channel did not exceed any limit. The channel was attacked even before the debated was aired. How can someone claim to be offended even without watching the debate? Secondly, if one has a problem with the content, there are legal channels for remedy.
5:15
Comment From R NAGARAJAN
The so called media have guts only to make program against the beliefs of Hindu religion and they do not have guts to touch other religions' beliefs
5:16
Sudha Ramalingam : who are we to say what the topic of discussion must be. one has the option to switch off the TV or participate in the debate for these days many shows have options for viewers to call and participate
5:16
Comment From Albert Devakaram
Irrespective of the party in power attacks on press freedom continues unabated.
5:16
Comment From Krishna
NObody protested when The Da Vinci Code was banned citing "hurting religious sentiments"
5:16
Comment From P.K.Senthil%20kumaran
Progressive society debates the difference, not hurls bombs at each other. We have seen enough examples of in-tolerance and its catastrophes all over the world. Learn or perish, that's two options we have.
5:16
Comment From Karthikeya Pawar
Will fringe elements ever be punished or will the government preserve it's vote base and not do anything?
5:17
Sudha Ramalingam : putting the cart before the horse has become the norm. asking for censorship, banning publications or releases before reading the book or seeing the movies or documentaries have come to stay
5:17
Comment From Dennis S. Jesudasan
Someone here said the PT exceeded their limit. I think when you set a limit, it called controlled media and public relations. It's not journalism. Media needs to be free and if not scams or other scandals would not have even seen the light of the day
5:17
Comment From Guest
Freedom of press under threat!
5:17
Comment From Partha
How is social reform related to a faith having thaali is against the reform? Reformulation from what to what? If self respect is about defying such faiths, so should it be with any faith/religion. Why did PT not touch up on other practices in other religions?
5:17
Comment From kasthuri rangan
It has become the habit of attacking the Hindu faith and customs. If Hindus are OK with it what is wrong and what affects others.
5:18
Comment From P.K.Senthil%20kumaran
Its not just taxes shouldn't be retrospective, our thought process too!
5:18
Sruthisagar : Newspapers did criticise the ban on Da Vinci Code. Here is the Editorial The Hindu wrote after the ban- >https://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-opinion/joining-the-wrong-side/article3113731.ece
5:18
Comment From karthikeyan
will honest probe will be conducted for who did this ?..
5:18
Comment From Khalid Ahmed
Ban culture in India is growing...it's really disgusting
5:18
Sudha Ramalingam : thaali is not restricted to any particular religious faith. Even non-Hindus wear thali
5:18
Comment From Krishna
Did any channel debated when a Kerala professsor's hands were chopped off by religious fundemantalists?. I think the selective condemnation results in the rise of right-wing politics.
5:18
Comment From Keerthi Kanth
All customs of Hinduism can be debated. If it improves rational thinking then fine.
5:19
Sudha Ramalingam : you cannot expect debates on all dissent.
5:19
Comment From Albert Devakaram
Yes, even Christian brides wear it and treasure it till "death do part us"
5:19
Comment From Krishna
Mr. Sagar agreed. But you can see the ferociousness and intensity of these intellectuals when some form of aggression is shown by Hindutva groups.
5:19
Comment From kasthuri rangan
Mr. Jesudasan if the same TV host a show on Jesus and the myth around him will you feel the same freedom of speech? If so I can appreciate it. In the name of secularism one cannot continously attack a native religion. First condemn it
5:19
Vasundhara Sirnate : But this is the issue here. People jump to conclusions with very little information.
5:19
Comment From Ishwar
Society isn't matured enough for such debates.Especially in highly caste conscious States like Tamil Nadu. Such debates happen in Kerala where TV channels lampoon politicians. But freedom of speech has its own reasonable limits.
5:19
Comment From Khalid Ahmed
Yes selective condenmation results in rise of right wing poliitics @Krishna
5:20
Comment From R NAGARAJAN
The same channel Puthiya Thalaimurai on deepavali day last year made a programme "Is deepavali a tamil festival?". They will not do program whether Christmas or Ramzan tamil festival. They know if they do such program, what would be the consequences'
5:20
Comment From Sundar
When it is a debate, we have to answer all proposals.
5:20
Sudha Ramalingam : yes Vasundhara... just knee jerk reactions with just very minimal information.
5:20
Comment From Prabhakar Jayaprakash
BJP and RSS have started deciding what to wear, what to discuss, and how many children to give birth to, and what programme to telecast in TV channels. The country is heading in a bad direction. If people are not ready to listen, then, call them anti-national, anti-secular, or whatever. Now, they have started a new trend of throwing bomb at those who are functioning against their ideologies. I guess this is the "Acha din agaya" that Singh was referring to.
5:20
Comment From P.K.Senthil kumaran
Anything evolves only if it withstand criticism. Or else it can only be a artifact which will go to museum.
5:20
Comment From Karthikeya Pawar
Will Indian society ever become as appreciative and protective of individual freedom as the countries in the west?
5:21
Comment From Sri Sri
Bombs are hurled even on embassies, immediate justice is what the agitating people require. If promised with such measures, i think we can see the change in people's way of thinking. Its not about freedom of press or speech.
5:21
Comment From Khalid Ahmed
Yes RSS is calling the shots now
5:21
Comment From Sundar
Activists need not think they are the protectors of the Society..
5:21
Comment From R NAGARAJAN
Keerthi Kanth - why do you target to discuss only Hindu customs? will you discuss the customs of other videshi religions - islam and christianity?
5:21
Sruthisagar : The same channel ran extensive debates on the controversy surrounding an IAS officer who also claims to be an evangelist with powers of miracles. The accusation that the media targets a particular religion is baseless.
5:22
Comment From Deepa
Perumal Murugan, Puliyur Murugesan and Puthiya Thalaimurai. The TN government is silent till now. Neither the CM nor any ministers seem to have spoken anything about it. Can the judiciary step in under such circumstances?
5:22
Comment From Albert Devakaram
Press freedom is in danger in the West too. It is not limited to India.
5:22
Comment From Krishna
But will "Thali" debate solve all ills facing the Tamil society? Why debates at this just to improve your TRPs? Can't you debate issues people face in their day-to-day life?. But alas, that cannot ensure your viewership?
5:22
Comment From Indian
OK the right wing has started dictating what we should not eat (Beef), what we should not see, what we should not discuss, how many children to have..etc
5:22
Vasundhara Sirnate : Yes.. it is now a global phenomenon as states assume more power leading to state's that are more concerned about order and security than about guaranteeing freedom
5:23
Comment From Krishna
Well said Albert. We have been attacks on Sikhs, Hindu temples in the U.S., racial attack in Australia...
5:23
Comment From ramasubramanian
why they are always taking cultural issues of one religion why can'nt they take up the issues of corruption/civil and power and developmental problems in TN on the politics of AIADMK/DMK if they take it and debate they will get it from both the parities
5:23
Sudha Ramalingam : No debate will solve any issue, they are healthy to tools to social change .. a medium to stir people's thinking / conscience
5:23
Comment From Albert Devakaram
The media doesn't target any creed. It reports events as they unfold.
5:23
Comment From Guest
Only Hindus have tolerance
5:24
Comment From Indian
Looks like talimbanization of India has started ....they attach and then proudly claim the responsibility...just the way taliban does. With BJP in power fringe groups got courage to do what ever they want
5:24
Comment From Prabhakar Jayaprakash
Neither Jayalalitha or ADMK will open their mouth about any of the atrocities that RSS and BJP involved in until the "The Judgment Day" :P The State is in a bad shape since her arrest.
5:25
Comment From Karthikeya Pawar
@Sundar And neither should right wing groups think they are the protectors of morality and culture.
5:25
Comment From Ragav
For the sake of TRP ratings these channels are unnecessarily taking up topics like Thali which is part of our culture. Why should topic be discussed? Next time they will talk about Poonool, namam, burqa, the dress worn by pastor,etc. All these topics should be avoided and focus on sanitation, cleanliness, corruption, nation's progress, etc.
5:25
Comment From Guest
Why dont they make a program like Purqa is important or not?
5:25
Comment From Keerthi Kanth
To those who oppose debating on Hinduism: must remember, crux of Hinduism is tolerance & openness.
5:25
Comment From Mohideen
If freedom of speech needs to be censored, I think hereafter everyone has to write in a paper what he is going to speak and get certificate from Government
5:25
Comment From Khalid Ahmed
RSSisation of India has started
5:25
Comment From Albert Devakaram
All of us tolerate to the extent possible and blare out only when things seem to go out of hand.
5:25
Comment From Sundar
Is it Activists vs Activists (so cald fringe elements)?
5:25
Sudha Ramalingam : We have sadly become a state which has come too far away from Periyar. No rational thinking.. hysterical expressions of sympathies for wrong doers. Open support to the corrupt, justification of excesses etc.
5:26
Comment From Guest
They already talked about Burq in Vijay TV sometime back.
5:26
Comment From Abhishek
if only all of us could pratice a little tolerance.
5:26
Comment From Krishna
But attacking those who are ideologically opposite is unacceptable.
5:27
Sudha Ramalingam : no one can be the Protector of the Society individually it is a collective effort.. surely activists take the risk, spend their time and energy for positive mobilization
5:27
Comment From Abhishek
How do such goons have such confidence and freedom?
5:28
Comment From obby
whts going on in the country??
5:28
Comment From Vasumathi
can someone explain how ADMK/BJP are related to this incident??
5:28
Comment From Bond
@Keerthi So you mean just because Hindus are tolerant, you can keep on criticising them? Just because you are afraid of getting bombed, you wont talk about other religions? That is hypocrisy at its best
5:28
Comment From Partha
@Sudha Ramalingam.. What is rational thinking? Is it just iconoclastic? Unfortunately, "rational" word has been used by a narrow minded pseudo left wing socialist cultural racists..
5:28
Vasundhara Sirnate : We basically need more logic and reasoning in public discourse. This is sorely missing. Some god man says something and thousands agree.
5:28
Comment From shan
Rowdyism on rise, will engulf the society if tolerance is not practiced
5:28
Comment From Albert Devakaram
Tamil Nadu is by and large a peaceful State governed by peace-loving people, and administered by like-minded bureaucrats.
5:29
Comment From Indian
and no one calls them terrorist...because they are not muslims
5:29
Vasundhara Sirnate : Tamil Nadu has not had religious violence, but there have been many cases of caste riots as far back as the 1950s and 60s.
5:29
Comment From Krishna
Just like you say that eating habits or religion is a personal affair, the mangalsutra is also a personal affair. Why debate on it. Whether to wear "thali" in the neck or put on the coatstand, is purely an individual's choice. Why intrude into that?
5:29
Comment From ahmed
If people (Women) are allowed to reveal their bodies as a symbol of freedom of expression why should there be hue and cry if they wear burqa, it is not their freedom DOUBLe STANDARDS
5:29
Comment From Sam
The debate is on Hindutva, not Hinduism .... Every religion has fundamentalists and the "us" vs "them" mentality should be against the fundamentalists, not to those of other religions.
5:29
Sudha Ramalingam : There has been religious violence in the past too.. Jains vs. Hindus etc
5:30
Comment From Albert Devakaram
Caste riots will always be there since Adam's days. Difficult to wipe them off the face of this earth.
5:30
Comment From Sri
Should this PT guys had said something on Islam, our muslim bros would have put out a fatwa for killing them. And if for christians The Hindu and others are there to put the PT guy in media trials. So who is left over is only Hindus. Its is good, however, becoz, Hinduism will evolve, as always, and remain, true to its original nomenclature, a Sanatana Dharam, eternal one!
5:30
Sudha Ramalingam : Religion per se is like opium as Marx said
5:30
Comment From Karthikeya Pawar
People who say that cultural and religious beliefs are above freedom of speech should understand that we live in a democracy and not in a theocracy.
5:30
Comment From Dude
Jains Vs Hindus ? Jains are a subset of Hindus
5:30
Vasundhara Sirnate : A free woman is seen as a threat to the structure of the family. This is why she must be trapped and controlled through cultural chains.
5:30
Comment From Indian
If you dont like what TV is going to show then tell them and protest in a peaceful manner.... you cannot resort to violance.... that is bad
5:31
Comment From Srinivas
Religion is a myth. The sooner people realize this, the better. Throwing bombs on behalf of medieval superstitious thought or having arguments on the same is a waste of time. And nothing in the universe is free from critical thought.
5:31
Comment From ahmed
Agree Sam's views
5:31
Comment From Ishwar
Under Indian law, the freedom of speech and of the press do not confer an absolute right to express one's thoughts freely.Clause (2) of Article 19 of the Indian constitution enables the legislature to impose certain restrictions on free speech under following heads: I. security of the State, II. friendly relations with foreign States, III. public order, IV. decency and morality, V. contempt of court, VI. defamation, VII. incitement to an offence, and VIII. sovereignty and integrity of India.
5:31
Vasundhara Sirnate : Riots can be wiped out and stopped. What we need is an active police that ACTS to stop violence. We don't have that.
5:31
Comment From Sam
@Bond - Religion always invites both praise and criticism. Normal people don't just use violence against such "criticisms". Only fundamentalists, like the Sangh parivar or the Jihadi outfits use violence for political purpose ...
5:31
Comment From Karthik
We don't live in a ideal society. Though many of us may like to live in a classless and uniform society, it is biologically and scientifically impossible to have such one. So these things happen! Better to educate everyone about what is life and why are we here than anything!
5:31
Comment From Partha
Caste is everything in TN. Each dominant caste has their own newspapers and TVs. Dravidian parties field only dominant caste members in elections. It is not the universal Dravidianism of Sangam period, but parochial feudal groupism. TN had witnessed enormously many caste clashes big or small in the last 500 years.
5:32
Comment From Keerthi Kanth
@Bond: Hinduism survived criticism for more than 2500 years because Hindus ignore what others have to say about it. They know to ignore others in religion terms
5:32
Vasundhara Sirnate : See this for more on policing and riots.
>http://www.thehinducentre.com/publications/policy-watch/article5656731.ece
5:32
Sudha Ramalingam : Police is not allowed to be neutral, they are made to take the side of the ruling party. the honest neutral officers are shifted out from sensitive postings
5:32
Comment From Albert Devakaram
Everyone in the country, including the media, enjoys the fundamental right to freedom of speech guaranteed to us by the Indian Constitution under Article 19(1a) and the Tamil TV channel was using this right to promote a healthy debate
5:32
Vasundhara Sirnate : My research on policing during riots shows that when police dont act quickly death tolls go up.
5:32
Comment From Jaisuresh
While there is no question the attacks on PT is barbaric, I also denounce the choice of PT for the debate. There are numerous superstitions in Hinduism that needs to be debated and 'Thali' is one of the most sensitive, if not THE most sensitive.
5:33
Vasundhara Sirnate : When they act, people are alive. When police follow the law and make arrests, riots stop
5:34
Comment From Guest
We Tamils shouldn't allow any Religious forces to cripple our Tamilhood ! BJP & Co had a good chance of utilizing the political vacuum in TN.. Unfortunately their main agenda seems to be only Hinduism, Hindi, Sanskrit !
5:34
Comment From Albert Devakaram
There are always two factions of the police in Tamil Nadu. One is popular with the ruling party and the other with the Main Opposition party, This is the trend fro, the past thirty years.
5:34
Comment From Lakshminarasimhachari krishnan
Puthiya Thalaimurai have guts to debate on Muslim like dressing Burka is bad or good. OR doing Sunnath is wanted or not wanted.
5:34
Vasundhara Sirnate : The police people I spoke to did say that when they face political interference they cannot do their jobs.
5:35
Comment From Karthikeya Pawar
When people become afraid of talking about sensitive issues, it results in death of free speech. People do not need free speech to talk about something that everyone is comfortable with.
5:36
Comment From Guest
Yes, Hinduism allows all the criticism and debate you can level on it. But when the same amount of criticism and debate are not allowed with other religions, then there is no equal playing field. It becomes onesided. Everyone starts criticising only one set of people.
5:36
Comment From Tamilan
If all religion critized equally.. then these goondass will accept it seems .. pls do it so media
5:36
Comment From Guest
Indian. the only thing should be in our mind...let the people be as they want.
5:36
Comment From Nagoorkani.A
it show's the growing threat of freedom of expression, hopefully our state government need to protect the rights of the people. after the BJP formed the central government their are lot of issues which are coming up against from this right wing groups, they are trying to make ourselves to follow their ideas. we need to fight hard to get our fundamental rights.
5:36
Comment From Nagoorkani.A
it show's the growing threat of freedom of expression, hopefully our state government need to protect the rights of the people. after the BJP formed the central government their are lot of issues which are coming up against from this right wing groups, they are trying to make ourselves to follow their ideas. we need to fight hard to get our fundamental rights.
5:36
Comment From Jaisuresh
@Lakshminarasimhachari krishnan, I could think of provocative topics also. Please avoid such statements and please avoid give these TRP monsters ideas.
5:37
Comment From Indian
Guys raising Burqa issue please note that there is enough discussed abused, banned, allowed etc etc happend on Burqa... but who ever believes in it are not affected by this and they are wearing it...
5:37
Sudha Ramalingam : police is definitely overworked, under paid and made to support the ruling party.... unless the Praksh Singh judgment of the Supreme Court is executed in letter and spirit we will not have a police with moral high ground
5:37
Comment From Ishwar
Media tend to blow up Perumal Murugan connecting it with Hindutva. Issues behind Perumal Murugan were different from casteism to economical.
5:37
Comment From Sam
@Vasundhara Sirnate - I believe you are right - the Coimbatore riots happened because the police didn't step in immediately to control the situation .... the Sangh parivar was able to take advantage of this and fuel it further ... by the time the police swung into action to control the situation, the Al umma JIhadi fundamentalist took over from the RSS and continued to foster further chaos ...
5:37
Comment From BelovedBrother
Thaali for that case any such "women only" markers of marital status should go. There is no need for martial status markers at all!
5:37
Comment From Tamilan
If the Govt have stood up for Viswaroopam and hell bent on Islamic parties, this wouldnt have occurred. Freedom of Speech started from that issue. Davinci Code, Innocence of Muslims, Viswaroopam etc
5:37
Vasundhara Sirnate : We are a slowly radicalizing society
5:37
Comment From Keerthi Kanth
Violence by fringe elements is always done to bring divide...so, we all have to stand together..ignore religious divides and believe in peaceful existence
5:39
Comment From kasthuri rangan
Mr.Naggoorkani , will you allow a discussion on Burqa and the wedding practice to be debated? Pl. answer honestly. This is the nation of Hindus where other religions are allowed and appreciated which doesnot mean the host religion should accept trampling over them
5:39
Comment From Guest
puthiya thamilagam to attract more viewers sensational debates are organised and the topics hurting the sentiments of majority of the people is highly condemned.
5:39
Sudha Ramalingam : I know how innocents are targeted and pushed to extremism / terrorism by the State filing false cases and also using them against each other
5:39
Comment From Nagoorkani.A
Puthiya Thalaimurai is the only neutral TV in tamilnadu, there are doing real social work to the people of tamil nadu, they are taken many issues which are necessary, hopefully they need to continue their work without any fear, we are with u.
5:39
Comment From BelovedBrother
The funniest fact is Da Vinci Code went on without trouble in so called "Christian" countries. Seems religiosity is infecting minorities too.
5:39
Comment From Krishna B
I think, media should not busy in creating tensions in the society, better thay should focus on healthy common topics for debate rather than any religion faiths or belief's
5:39
Comment From BelovedBrother
@Vasundhara: not slowly. Actively radicalizing society
5:39
Comment From Indian
do we have a link to the program the TV channel broadcasted? lets see it before commenting on it, lets be impartial
5:39
Comment From Akshay
True
5:40
Vasundhara Sirnate : Well yes we should see it. But my point is, why ban something.. anything. Unless it propagates hate speech actively against a group or an indovidual nothing should be banned
5:41
Vasundhara Sirnate : Last week alone we banned the following
1. India's daughter
2. Dirty Politics release
3. Beef in Maharashtra
4. No parties in Karnataka where foreigners are present without police
5. 50 shades of grey
5:41
Comment From Karthikeya Pawar
@Vasundhara I agree
5:41
Comment From Ishwar
More than 65 years after Independence, people are radicalised in one way or other, Either its is by religion, caste, ideology or politics. In that case, Tamil Nadu is no different from Bihar.
5:41
Comment From Daphine
It is nothing to do with religion, its outrageous use of violence means to show one's power. It must be condemned and the accused should be arrested and sent to jail.
5:41
Comment From guest
why the THE HINDU is giving so important to it
5:41
Comment From Albert Devakaram
The Coimbatore riots took place, perhaps because the hands of the police were tied and they were unable to control the situation.
5:41
Comment From BelovedBrother
If someone thinks thaali is useless, is it wrong to say that on TV? Is it wrong to publicize it? Even if it is wrong, throwing bombs is the way to reply that argument? Why not file a case? Do these people have any respect for the law of the land? Do they have any right to claim that they have patriotism and respect for culture?
5:41
Comment From ramasubramanian
Even before there was attacks on the media during DDMK and AIADMK governments rule those media's are still in business, their rights and freedom are not suppressed and this happens to every media and PT is now trying to encash this and enlarge its market.
5:41
Vasundhara Sirnate : Giving importance to what?
5:42
Vasundhara Sirnate : Thank you Beloved Brother. This is the crux of the matter., Even if one is deeply offended by something, should you attack with bombs and guns? Remember Charlie Hebdo? What is the difference betweent his and that?
5:43
Vasundhara Sirnate : It is fear of the attacks and consequences that also compromises the quality of journalism. We don't have fearless journalism in this country anymore.
5:43
Sudha Ramalingam : Nothing justifies use of violence. Violence is no answer to any issue
5:44
Comment From Laurent Pugazhendhi
On few occasions the target is an innocent victim. Most times the target is one who has done the same to others. Yet the liberty to speak one's thoughts has not received the honour it should receive. Not just India, the world follows this. We always blame someone else for such acts. We lack the self-analysis to know how can I set this right! Lets wait for that realization.
5:44
Comment From Ashish
Caste democracy is running in TN. It must be stopped.
5:44
Comment From Ishwar
The ban on films and cow slaughter beef were through court orders or through legislation.
5:45
Comment From Sam
@Kasturi Rangan - This NOT a nation of Hindus, like you may well desire, but a nation of billion people who practice whatever religion they want to and is home to thousands of culture.
5:45
Comment From BelovedBrother
Whatever it may be! If you are offended at least sue the offending party. That shows that you are civilized.
5:45
Comment From Indian
@Vasundhara Sirnate:... Govts major job seems to be banning
5:45
Comment From Krishna B
Many anti-social elements in our society waiting for an Opportunity to create tension in the society. Those elements are not bothered about religion, they don't want to see peaceful state
5:45
Vasundhara Sirnate : The sense I get is that our quality of democracy is really slipping. And people don't realise that the liberals of this country will leave if things continue this way. They have the option of exit. Just like the liberals in Afghanistan and Iraq and Iran all fled to the West. What wa sleft behind in these countries were the fundamentalists in power. And we see how democracy works there.
5:45
Comment From Guest
BJP & Co seems to have found a strategy to polarize the voters on religious basis is the only way to establish itself in TN & win elections ! They know, they can't directly unite all the hindus because of castsim ( BJP & Co. accepts caste). SO only way to unite the Hindus is to create an imaginary impression that the very common sensitive sentiments of hindus are endangered ! In that case Hindus will come under one umbrella ! Judicial system should also investigate whether that particular debate itself was planned by BJP & Co to stage a drama !
5:45
Comment From BelovedBrother
What culture allows let alone encourages throwing bombs?
5:45
Sudha Ramalingam : We do not have fearless politics, judiciary or bureaucracy or any other pillar of democracy. We are now surrounded by intolerant elements being fanned with heroic postures
5:45
Comment From Sam
@Ishwar - Really? The suspect arrested claims to be the president of the "Hindu Illaignar Sena", related to the Sangh Parivar ... and has also made statements similar to what all Sangh fundamentalists make ... How again is the media "blowing" this out of proportion?
5:45
Comment From Karthikeya Pawar
The first step to stop the radicalization of our society is to implement complete separation of state and religion.
5:45
Comment From BelovedBrother
@Vasundhara, we never had fearless anything in this country
5:46
Comment From Keerthi Kanth
Banning is legal under Article 19...just because Govt bans some videos doesn't mean Govt is curbing our freedom of speech...Friends, even greatest democracy(self-proclaimed) USA bans videos n intrudes privacy of others...
5:46
Comment From Albert Devakaram
It now looks as though we need a Ministry of Bans , both at the Centre and in the States, to oversea the implementation of bans on various things.
5:46
Sudha Ramalingam : yes separation of State from Religion is a must. Secularism is the most misunderstood term
5:46
Vasundhara Sirnate : We do have a fearless Supreme Court at least.
5:47
Vasundhara Sirnate : Banning is allowed FOR REASONS OF PUBLIC ORDER AND SUBJECT TO REASONABLE RESTRICTIONS. These are unreasonable restrictions
5:47
Comment From rajeev
@Guest Should know that HINDUISM is not related to "HINDI" language, do'nt try to give debate another dividing twist between North & south. India's integrity despite of diverse culture & core democracy is one of the most precious gift. you would surprise to know that currently spoken'HINDI" across north India is an urban language,villages,interior of north India have hundreds of local dialects which are their mother tongue but over the years as Mahatma Gandhiji expressed once that this urban language may be termed as 'HINDUSTANI" mixture of words from all languages.
5:48
Comment From Tamilan
So none is ready accept the fundamentalism in their religion.. instead they want criticise all religion equally. so that no one will take upper hand, its funny !! worst thing is all these fundamentalism starts from bloody educated people..
5:48
Sudha Ramalingam : Reasonable restrictions should be on genuine reasons not just some illogical apprehensions
5:48
Comment From Jaisuresh
As much truth is there in the sensitiveness of Thali, so much is there that women today don't hesitate to part with them, if circumstances demand.
5:48
Vasundhara Sirnate : The USA only bans things when the promote hate speech. This is not allowed. Even then the threshold for banning is very very high. The US gov cannot force Facebook for instance to take down a page. Remember Wiki is now suing the US government too for privacy infringement.
5:48
Comment From Indian
OK guys one final word from me.... lets not give any importaqnce to these guys... lets be united the way were were in the past that will give fitting reply to these guys
5:48
Comment From Albert Devakaram
Different people interpret Secularism differently suiting their own convenience.
5:48
Comment From guest
There are more important things to discuss like safety of women, sanitation, corruption, pollution. The useless channels are taking up useless topics to stir controversy & increase their ratings
5:48
Comment From BelovedBrother
What is "reasonable" differs from person to person.
5:49
Comment From Dinesh
Take it easy it is a low intensity cracker. However its a warning to the TV channel. India is a democracy all religions have a right to protest like this. Not only one particular community is doing every time.
5:49
Comment From Sam
@Albert Devakaram - No the Coimbatore riots happened because a police man was killed by someone from the minority group, and while the administration was trying to decide how to handle this, the Sangh parivar fanned rumours that the administration was trying to protect the culprit because it was election time ... They were thus able to take advantage of the indecisiveness of the administration and use the police anger for their political purposes (which was to communlaise the issue) ... and it paid of great political dividends for the Sangh / BJP .... for the first time, it was able to win an election from Tamil Nadu.
5:49
Comment From Srinivas
Banning of religion is a must, more like
5:49
Comment From Karthikeya Pawar
Let's hope the supreme court one day interprets the word secular in our preamble to mean separation of state and religion. Till then communal politics will go on unabated.
5:49
Vasundhara Sirnate : The criterion on reasonableness has been defined and interpreted by many court cases. One only has to look through "manupatra" and find those.
5:49
Comment From Abhisek Parichha
The question should be why was the channel attacked? Was it political, communal, religious or random ?
5:49
Comment From Murugan
What does qualify as reasonable restrictions?
5:49
Comment From Ishwar
All political parties use caste and religion for political gains. Even in so-called progressive State like Kerala, political parties including CPi_M nominate candidates based on their caste and religion.
5:50
Comment From Krishna
@Sudha Ramalingam. Shocked to see a reference to Periyar on "tolerance". He is one who broke Vinayaga idols, put chappals on Lord Rama's pictures. Such was his "rationalism", asked his followers to beat a particular community instead of a snake..
5:50
Vasundhara Sirnate : Reasonable retsictions
security of the State,
II. friendly relations with foreign States,
III. public order,
IV. decency and morality,
V. contempt of court,
VI. defamation,
VII. incitement to an offence, and
VIII. sovereignty and integrity of India.
5:50
Comment From Guest
I don't think banning anything is a solution.
5:51
Vasundhara Sirnate : From time to time the criterion of reasonableness has changed. But now most times they use "public order and decency and morality".
5:51
Comment From Albert Devakaram
Of all the Tamil channels, Puthyia Thalaimurai is by and large impartial and balanced. One cannot question its integrity.
5:51
Vasundhara Sirnate : Please be informed, read some history. Tamilnadu has had good number of religious violence in Coimbatore, Chennai and Madurai. There are still some Muslim localities where even Police think twice to enter
If insecurity is the reason for such happenings, then who has created that insecurity. The Political parties who consider non-hindus as vote banks and always try to appease them by bashing Hindus and Hindu traditions
5:51
Comment From Naru
Violence cannot be justified. It is the one sided criticism that is wrong. When there were charges against a god man, Nityananda, there was violence unleashed on him and his ashram by 'intellectuals' - was that ok? Was it condemned? (all the charges proved baseless and dismissed in the court)
5:51
Vasundhara Sirnate : Please be informed, read some history. Tamilnadu has had good number of religious violence in Coimbatore, Chennai and Madurai. There are still some Muslim localities where even Police think twice to enter
5:52
Comment From Ishwar
All these years after Independence , we don't have a uniform civil code. Fifty per cent of problems could be solved if we had a uniform civil code like in developed countries. But our politicians might not like it.
5:52
Comment From Keerthi Kanth
@Nagarajan: Hindu customs are debated regularly because we are majority...Debates on other religions are not raised frequently but needed.....You don't expect debate on Hinduism in Rome/Saudi/Israel. Do you?
5:52
Vasundhara Sirnate : Have read history. Only few of these were signifcant enough for an inquiry commission
5:53
Sudha Ramalingam : Let us ask for uniform civil code, but let us not fight and hurl bombs at each other to get what we want
5:53
Vasundhara Sirnate : The UCC may not solve all problems. At the heart of this matter is not only freedom of speech and expression, but also gender relations and this desire to control women.
5:53
Comment From Raja
this is unfortunate... death of democracy
5:53
Comment From Tamilan
Soon..... India will become Hindu Pakistan !!!!!
5:54
Comment From Sankar
I feel Mangalsutra is one which belongs to sexism of the past and must be done away with. It is good to have a debate on it. There is no way you can attack a neutral sane tamil channel for this.
5:54
Vasundhara Sirnate : In the northeast many don;t want a UCC becuase women will lose rights that they have under customary tribal law.
5:54
Comment From ravi
All these people employed in the sena's etc etc are there for a reason. Why would a normal working class fella don't pay attetion to aspects that these guys focus on? Because most of us are busy. So what the governemt need to do is educate every individual, teach the role of religion in our society and its limits from very early ages. Also providing proper job opportunities will deviate all these people joining silly sena's ete etc and help them to lead a normal fruitfull lives by doing some job.
5:54
Comment From Srinivas
The minute one talks about "reasonable" restrictions, the battle for free speech is lost. Who decides reasonableness or lack thereof? Vulgarity could become an excuse for defence even in this case.
5:54
Comment From BelovedBrother
If I want to eat beef, pork, marry an adult of my own sex with consent, may I know how and in what way these things hurt someone else sentiments?
5:54
Sudha Ramalingam : Hindu customs are debated in our country because they are the concerns of majority of its population, let it not be made a reason to deny healthy debates
5:54
Comment From Murugan
but morality is highly subjective!
5:55
Comment From Nagoorkani.A
Tamil nadu need to ban this group who attacked puthiya thalaimurai
5:55
Vasundhara Sirnate : I don't know why Indians are so quick to take offence. But somehow being gay etc really angers people here AND across the world. I don't know why.
5:55
Sudha Ramalingam : WE need to inculcate a culture of tolerance, honesty and make intolerant / violent behavour an offence.
5:55
Vasundhara Sirnate : Those things are already offences.
5:56
Comment From BelovedBrother
@Ravi, Osama is educated. So I don't think education can fix this.
5:56
Vasundhara Sirnate : We need clear laws for hate speech
5:56
Comment From Srinivas
The Uniform Civil Code is a horrible idea. Why should we practice uniformity? Who decides what is common? And why should my beliefs be beholden to what the state thinks?
5:57
Comment From Ishwar
In India - secularism seems to a one-way traffic. Everything appears to be loaded against the Hindu community. No where in a country majority community is despised. This oppression is giving grounds for Sangh Parivar to grow in India just as Jews worldwide.
5:57
Vasundhara Sirnate : I agree... since even our feminism comes from the mainlad they dont realise that in tribal communities women have a lot more power under customary law.
5:57
Comment From Madhan
Its such a shame acts by Hindu activists.
5:57
Sudha Ramalingam : By and large we are Hippocratic, have no qualms to tell lies, what is needed is not new laws, but sensitization / change of minds and hearts with our head to accept alternatives
5:57
Comment From BelovedBrother
@Srinivas, uniform civil code (if implemented in purely secular way) is what we need
5:57
Comment From Karthikeya Pawar
When free speech is suppressed because it is deemed offensive or immoral by society, it is called tyranny of the majority.
5:58
Comment From Krishna
I think we are carried away by the propaganda of the West on India's tolerance. Tolerance is in our DNA. Let us not fool ourselves. Our country has evolved and matured only with debates not with swords..
5:58
Comment From Keerthi Kanth
@Srinivas: Govt has right to restrict...Courts have final say on reasonableness of restriction
5:58
Comment From ravi
@BelovedBrother: enducation doesn't mean A, B,C .... or a degree next to name. It mean understanding society, understanding the role of a person in it, understanding what civilization mean. etc. At the same time everyone should be given a platform to express themselves and get their problems addressed. Ofcourse our law and order, politics aren't helping it.
5:58
Comment From Ishwar
@Srinivas -If you want to live in a civilise society, there has to be some laws. If a Muslim , Christian or Hindu or Sikh can adopt uniform civil codes in US, why not in India?
5:58
Comment From neha
But who draws the line and where?
5:59
Vasundhara Sirnate : Tolerance is not in our DNA.. we like to think that.. but we are a gravely intolerant society.
6:00
Sudha Ramalingam : Laws cannot be panacea to evils. They are only one instrument in the hands of the State.
6:00
Comment From Keerthi Kanth
@Krishna: origin of Propaganda is again debatable...but totally agreed with you on debates & tolerance issues
6:00
Comment From Karthikeya Pawar
When speech amounts to abuse, that's where the line is drawn.
6:00
Vasundhara Sirnate : See how well we tolerate a girl in a short skirt, see how well arnab tolerates opposing views on his show, see how renters dont give theur houses to single girls or muslims?
6:00
Comment From Sam
@Sudha Ramalingam - Hindu customs can be debated, but please don't claim it is being done because it "concerns the majority" ... the majority of the hindus just want to live their life peacefully without fundamentalists trying to define and restrict them using religion ...
6:00
Sudha Ramalingam : Sure we are intolerant as a society at the macro level we may be tolerant not at micro level
6:00
Vasundhara Sirnate : See how well a mother in law tolerates a daughter in law who doesnt want to have children? See how well we tolerate the female foetus?
6:00
Comment From ravi
@vasundara, I don't thinks so. we did tolerate alot of foreign rulers for a long time. We are very patient people I think
6:01
Comment From neha
But one can argue the abuse could well be ignored
6:01
Comment From KK
There's nothing like absolute right of freedom. Nothing 'absolute' ever existed, or exists.
6:01
Comment From BelovedBrother
why some one is allowed to carry knife? why someone is allowed cover face fully in public? why someone is allowed to marry more than once? why someone is allowed to divorce without proper court intervention? why property and inheritance laws are not uniform? why some animals are allowed to be slaughtered while some are not? all these will be fixed with a common secular civil code.
6:01
Comment From Sankar
We are Indians and we are for free speech and freedom. The rationalist past of tamil leaders like Periyar is our pride but what has Tamilnadu come down to represet even when Dravidian parties are ruling. Sad!
6:01
Comment From Krishna
Right from our Udanishads to Adi Shankara, debates on philosophy and religion have moulded this great country. SO please don't teach tolerance and repair our image. These are all isolated incidents.
6:01
Comment From Aanju
The concept of Tolerance and Truth, two pillars of Indian Freedom struggle, is missing. Gandhi used this to drive away British. Now we are using everything, other than these two to show the dominance of one group over other.In reporting such events Media should add sense rather than sensation.
6:01
Vasundhara Sirnate : That doesn't sound right. we didnt tolerate our invaders. We just didnt rise up against them all the time.
6:01
The Hindu : Thank you all for participating.
6:02
Vasundhara Sirnate : We were conquered. They didn't come in at our invitation. Most kings were bought out by the empires, both Mughal and British.
6:02
Vasundhara Sirnate : Anyway, in closing lets all work towards trying to tolerate difference
6:02
The Hindu : Many thanks to Sruthisagar, Sudha Ramalingam and Vasundhara Sirnate.
6:02
Sudha Ramalingam : poor mother in laws are victims / tools in the hands of the males of the family... we have stereo typed the roles of mother in laws... it will only be the bride grooms' mother as mother in law who is seen to be powerful... not the mother of the bride who is also a mother in law
6:03
Vasundhara Sirnate : I think everyone had a lot to say and I personally thank the engaged citizens for making us all think hard. Keep it up guys.
6:03
Sudha Ramalingam : Answer to all these "why" lies in the vote politics.
6:04
Vasundhara Sirnate : Yes.. vote carefully next time..
6:05
The Hindu : Many thanks to everyone who participated.
6:05
Sudha Ramalingam : Let us try to do what Voltaire said, defend to death the right to freedom of speech though we do not agree with what is being said.
>Tamil writer assaulted
Puliyur Murugesan (45), an upcoming Tamil writer, was assaulted after the release of his novel Balachandran Enra Peyarum Enakkundu. Some members of the Kongu Vellalar community, claimed the novel demeaned their community.
>Perumal Murugan gives up writing
Hounded by Hindutva and caste outfits, the author had to flee his hometown with his family. His novel, Madhorubhagan, irked Hindu fundamentalists and caste purists who saw it as a slur on Hindu women and denigration of a town.
>Puthiya Thalaimurai TV office attacked
A fringe Hindutva group has claimed responsibility for hurling crude bombs at the channel's office in Chennai. The channel had faced threats ahead of the planned telecast of a programme questioning the value of a ‘thali’ for women.
