Ministry distances itself from ASG's submission
Shortly after a top law officer disapproved gay sex as highly “immoral” in the Supreme Court, the Home Ministry on Thursday said it has not taken any stand on the Delhi High Court order decriminalising homosexuality.
It said the Attorney General has been asked only to assist the apex court.
In a hurriedly-issued press statement, the Home Ministry said the matter was considered by the Cabinet and the decision of the Cabinet was that Central Government may not file an appeal against the judgement to the Supreme Court.
“However, if any other party to the case prefers an appeal, the Attorney General may be requested to assist the Supreme Court to examine the matter and to decide the legal questions involved,” the statement said.
The Home Ministry conveyed the decision of the Union Cabinet to the Attorney General.
“Ministry of Home Affairs has not taken any position on homosexuality...Ministry of Home Affairs has also not given any instruction apart from conveying the decision of the Cabinet,” it said.
Earlier in the day, Additional Solicitor General (ASG) P P Malhotra, who said he was appearing for the Home Ministry, argued that the Indian society is different from other countries and it cannot imitate the practices prevailing in foreign countries.
“Gay sex is highly immoral and against social order and there is high chance of spreading of diseases through such acts,” ASG Malhotra contended before a bench of justices G S Singhvi and S J Mukhopadhaya.
Keywords: Homosexuality, gay sex, Section 377, decriminalisation debate
I doubt if any one knows about Alan Turing and what was done to him
because he was a homosexual in return for him saving britain from
Germany. He is widely considered the father of computer science and I
am not joking at that. And Turing award is considered the highest honor bestowed on a computer scientist.
There is a reason why the west is so open about homosexuals. Because
homosexuals earned it by the likes of Alan Turing. If there is one man
you can quote as example it is Alan Turing. The Hindu just needs to
publish one article on his life. This will make all those anti-
homosexuals just keep quiet and leave in acceptance of the rights that
these folks must enjoy.
Hejang Misao- Have you actually made a case study of
animals to see if all animals are heterosexual?
"Unnatural demand"- Please enlighten us as to where you came across
the Laws of Nature in black and white proclaiming gay sex as un-
Natural.
yash- I would not care in the least if my father/children are gay.
Because I respect/love them for being my father/son, not for being
straight. If you are right, I should, e.g. hate my daughter for
marrying "lower caste" people, and so on. See where you end up doing
that sort of thing. There isn't a single study that proclaims gay sex
as "unnatural".Gays have been here for a long time, only they have
hidden away from unnatural people like you. Please show how they have
"ripped apart our social structure". <
@Howis - "Apply the same scale, why can't we decriminalize the
corruption and bribery. That also exists in our society since long
back and also exists in almost all modern world."
No one is making the argument that since homosexuality has always
existed, we should legalize it. Usually when people point out that
homosexuality has a long history in our country, it is in response
to the bigoted view of some people who hold that this is some fancy
modern concept imported from the west.
You're right, we shouldn't decriminalize homosexuality JUST because
it has a history. Instead, we should decriminalize it because, as
the Delhi High court put it in their landmark ruling, it infringes
against the right of an individual to live freely and according to
his/her proclivities, and that no individual or group has a right to
impose its views on immorality on that individual. We should
decriminalize because unlike corruption, legalizing homosexuality
leaves two people happier and no one worse off.
@Hejang Misao - "Legalization of homosexuality will have a far
reaching social implication in India." Like what exactly? There are
many countries where homosexuality has been legalized and where gays
and straight people live happily and get along well with each other?
If there are "implications" of legalizing homosexuality it is that
it adds to the sum of happiness in this world.
"No import of western behavior in culturally rich India." - You
don't know much history do you? Homosexuality has been recorded in
India since ancient times and continues to exist widely in India.
Unfortunately, since gays are discriminated against by society and
by law, they choose not to reveal themselves as gays. And because
they're out of sight it's convenient to pretend that they don't
exist.
I hope someday we reduce the size of government and limit it to only
preserving liberty instead of having it meddle in everything about our
lives. It will definitely reduce corruption and wastage of our tax
money.
It would be really great if the Hindu writes an article on Ron Paul or
other famous libertarians.
If you don't like someone's personal choice, you don't do it. That is
all. Just live how you want to and let others live how they want to.
Why is this even an issue in 2012??
The entire 'Indian' penal code is not indian at all....it was drafted by the Brits to 'rule over the natives' and impose their own brand of 'morality' - it has no place in free independant India. It specifically limits rights for that very purpose.
I know of several Brits who laugh openly at the idea that we Indians STILL use the IPC they made for their convenience.
I ask you force the issue and review each and every law.
On the matter at hand - Any act between
two consenting adults, is no business for the government. Period. Private individuals are requested to keep their own council.
I have become very critical of Indian Democracy these days. Rather than electing our representatives, it seems we are electing dictators. How can 1 person or a couple of people stand up and say that gay culture is against our culture and leads to STDs or for a matter of fact say that we represent a majority? If that is so, we should ban all sexual relations since they too sometimes leads to HIV. Its high time these people stop acting as moral police and understand the true meaning and spirit of democracy where people have the right and freedom to live the way they are and want.
Talking about culture and tradition, Hinduism is the only religion of which I know there is a god (Ayyappa) born to, as a son of two male gods (Shiva and Vishnu). Isn't it a clear enough indication?
Being a democratic country doesn't mean conferring absolute freedom to its citizens. Legalization of homosexuality will have a far reaching social implication in India. No import of western behavior in culturally rich India. It is going against the law of nature; nature is such that man is made for woman and vice-versa in term of sex. Those who propagate gay sex, I guess, are no better than animals, even animals live according to the law of nature. Let's save India from the devastating invading force of unnatural demand.
Some of the comments out here are disheartening. This is not a case of the east trying to emulate the west. Discriminating against someone based on their sexual orientation is human rights violation, be it any corner of the world. And justifying this as tradition crying “Our ways are different” is shameful. It’s time that the self-proclaimed guardians of character and Indianness realized that it is their ever-encroaching, all-knowing, hypocritical sense of righteousness that is a deadly disease.
If “sex is meant for procreation” as somebody pointed out, shouldn’t all alliances between couples who don’t have children or who don’t wish to have children be annulled by the state? Shouldn’t it be made mandatory for everyone who wishes to marry to procure a medical certificate stating that he or she is 'capable of procreation’ before being allowed to marry? STDs are not confined to gay partners alone- so would you propose banning marriage on the whole? (And what’s with the focus on MSMs and gay sex anyway? Lesbians, transgenders and bi-sexuals are as much a part of LGBT.)
If branding someone as a criminal based on their sexual orientation and trying to medicate them out of this ‘sinful state’ is the moral thing you do, I wonder what ones's ‘immoral’ side would be.
first of all its illogical reason to associate homosexuality as a cause of spreading disease ,disease can be spread in many ways , secondly as a parents would any body like their kids to become anti social element except for the circumstances, same way in our society we would not like that our kids become a part of such society but still if they become we should openly accept the fact and accept it without any discrimination and treat him as a normal child and then we should speak about law making things and apposing etc
Are we talking about something that we cannot change? Like males who like females do not do something to give birth to this liking,its inside them by default,Gays have the similar feeling for men.If one can change one's orientation from straight to gay I will agree with the officers decision of banning GAY rights.We are talking of stopping something that is inside us and not in our control and India being the biggest democracy is stoppoing people from practicing their likes which is not harmful to anybody on dis earth-this is inexplicable narrow mindedness.
I am fed up with the muck flung by self appointed custodians of India culture and morality. A few quick points for them to chew on - >- Gays have always been and will always be a part of every culture, civilization, race, country. Live with it, because homosexuality will not go away! its just another thing that makes up this universe. - Its not a choice but a human reality. NOT a western penomenon. -With the kind of discrimination and troubles that exist for homosexuals today, because of these very self appointed custodians of culture...would anybody want to be gay of their own volition? Its not a choice. ...finally, reality will strike these people only when their brother/child or a loved one in actuality turns out to be gay.
India needs to get past old british laws and enter 2012.
Many countries have moved or are moving in the direction of legalizing civil unions and/or gay marriage, it's high time India did as well. The majority of people are not gay, but they cannot cast judgement on something they do not understand and have been raised to see as 'abnormal'. It's bigoted to blindly oppose it, similar to the hatred towards other castes or religions or customs. In a increasing global world, India needs to adhere to human rights and grant it's gay citizens full freedom and equal rights. Nobody is asking for extra, just equal under the law.
Sex preferences are a matter of personal life, and all consensual sex acts should be de-criminalized. The gay community in India is already enjoying much better treatment than the pedophile or zoophile community. This discrimination is unfair.
@vikas^: You argue that sex is meant solely for procreation. Are you saying we should ban condoms?
These people definitely need sympathy and pity. They are also Indians and have rights. Who are we to condemn them. It took a very long time in the United States to accept them. Unlike US, Indians are more religiously oriented. It will take a longer time for them to be accepted. At lease we are not hostile to them. I think India is not yet ready to embrace them.
Heterosexual couple come together and marry to take on the responsibility of carrying forward the blood line and family name. It
is only under unusual complications that they cannot have a child.
Hence the spouse is given all legal benefits as a family member.
However in the case of homosexual couple they come together purely for
their unusual sensual pleasure, disregarding the responsibility
towards their family bloodline. A homosexual couple comes together
knowing that the probability of having a progeny is zero. They not
having a child is a result of their conscious decision and not a risk
factor. Then why should such couple get a legal status. Nature
nurtures particular sensory abilities in every species to improve
their chances of survival and propagation. Like thirst, hunger and
pain that help us to survive, sexual pleasure and attraction towards
opposite sex based on certain bodily features are heightened senses
that improve human survival. Gays do not fit into any of these.
Homosexuality is blown out of proportion. Hinduism doesn't even go against it. Criminializing homoexuality is not going to make gay people stop having sex. It's a physiological need. Obviously you can't stop someone from having some encounter behind some random train. Treating homosexuality like some foreign will only reduce awareness about it reducing the awareness of contraceptives increasing AIDS that the very misinformed person PP Malotra keeps blaring . I don't understand why people can't just get over the fact it's UNCHANGABLE Why not try altering your mindset? You can't change a left handed person to a right, or change a persons genes by pure thought. and there is no "Cure" since it's not a disease. I strongly feel consensual sex between 2 adults is a basic human right.
Vikas says: "Gay sex doesn't serve any purpose other than getting
pleasure." - so people who have children have sex exclusively for
having children, never for pleasure?
Vikas says:"Children growing up with gay parents will be confused" -
how about children growing up with one parent (say the other has
passed away in an accident)? Would they have identity issues as well?
Apart from that, you are viewing Gayness only as sex, not love. That
is incorrect.
SAM says: "India is known for its culture. No one can approve gay in
India. Let us respect our heritage and culture." - Obviously, you are
wrong in saying 'No one'. There are a lot of people who are gay who
approve of it, and others who support their equality. Besides,
heritage and culture develop and evolve over time. We do not live
like the Indians a 1000 years ago. We do not live under kings and
queens. it is a democracy with equal rights promised to all people.
Times change. People change. Cultures change too.
Those who claim that homosexuality was not part of Indian culture – go and have a look at our temples. We have to really know our history. It is the British who brought their Victorian law that criminalized homosexuality. It was acceptable before that.
How can the Government and others determine the moral thing to do in the privacy of someone’s bedroom? Why does sex have to have a propose – procreation? Why can it be just for pleasure? How can we then justify sports and other forms of entertainment? Do they all have a useful propose? Isn’t too much procreation a problem for us?
There is no scientific evidence that children growing up with same sex couples are confused. In fact, most of them grow up to be heterosexual individuals. By the way, why do we have to follow the US in every single matter? Why can’t we correct a mistake before them? Dogma and bigotry can not be reasons for justify injustice. Untouchability, racism, and other forms of discriminations were justified using th
Homosexuality being immoral is part of the British legacy, and not "great Indian tradition". And people who think that being gay is a Western concept, wake up, gay and lesbians are struggling for their rights in the Western countries too. In any case, why do we use the Western countries as a bench mark to either measure up to or frown upon with regards to social issues? Are we incapable of thought?
SAM
"Will any parent agree their children for this"- If a parent has no
right to decide who their child marries, the parent certainly has no
right to decide their child's sexual orientation. And a parent who
sees their child not as a tool for carrying on the "family honor" but
as his child will love his child for what he is, independent of how
God molded the child. Who gave YOU the right to decide that no one can
approve gay sex in India? Which Indian culture are you talking about?
The one that gave rise to Brahmanical tyranny, the one that decimated
female agency in society, the one that called some people
"untouchable" based on skin color, the one that required widows to
burn themselves to death, the one that killed numerous women because
their father couldn't give enough dowry, that Indian culture? Because
the Indian culture that I know, the one that is admired worldwide,
reads "live and let live".
Homosexuality is natural. It is not a choice one makes. Please refrain from making absurd statements such as confused social upbringing. I would rather be brought up by gay parents than parents who are "cultured" and "traditional" and want to pay dowry for me and not to forget, make me a baby producing machine :) This is a democratic country and Homosexuality is a call of nature. Respect that before you air your artificially created 19th century principles.
Your reader Vikas is confusing "decriminalizing homosexuality" with
"same sex marriage". Where is the need to change marriage laws, when
we are only talking of "decriminalizing homosexuality"?
By defining the act of sex (as meant for procreation) he speaks like
an extreme right winger (a.k.a republicans in the US), who are against
contraception, abortion, homosexuals and of course coloured people. We
live in a pluralistic democracy - as much as our views are sacred to
us, we have the right to disagree. We do not want the Government to be
a moral police - let their work stop with good governance (which is
sadly, missing).
The government has no right to intrude into the priveate lives of its
citizens. Enough is enough. Archaic laws like the homomexuality law
from the Indian penal code of 1960, need to be scrapped. Let the
government be concerned with providing basic necessities like food
clothing and shelter.
To those claiming that homosexuality is not natural,
Firstly, the mere fact that it exists in human being and many animals naturally is proof that nature "wants" it. If, as you claim, it is not natural, are you suggesting that being gay is a choice? In that case, when did you make the choice to be straight?
Secondly, if the only purpose of sex is reproduction, then shouldn't the government ban all forms of sex which does not lead to reproduction (straight sex included)?
SAM
Please enlighten me as to which part of Indian culture bans gay sex.
The keystone of Indian culture is tolerance. Something that does nothing
except curl the hairs of some no-changers who think they are the moral
custodians of the country can never be criminal. Sexual orientation is
something inbuilt into our bodies. No-one has the right to change or
prevent what is beyond our control.
gay marriages should not be decriminalized. if someone is supporting gay relations as an extension of individual independence & if someone says that its right of the citizen to choose whome he want to have sex with, then ask them - how will you feel if your father is a gay, will you like your son or daughter to be in homosexual relation. Homosexuality is unnatural & if the law is passed then we will see that its going to rip apart our social structure. living is such culture will adversely affect our children psychology and this gay culture does promote childe sex abuse as the children are easy prey for such people
Our culture is totally different. A family consists of man and woman,
not gays and lesbians. This is totally unacceptable and it will affect
the children and society. If someone cannot control their sexual
behavior, of what good they will be to the community.
Apply the same scale, why can't we decriminalize the corruption and bribery. That also exists in our society since long back and also exists in almost all modern world.
The Government is the one who spreads the disease. The disease of corruption and inefficiency. It has no place in our bedrooms. Get out of people's personal life. Nobody cared what you think, be it immoral or moral. First teach yourself to be moral (to not take any bribes from anyone and work for the salary that you receive). We pay your salary out of our hard work in the form of taxes. Work for it and not lecture us.
Gay sex doesn't serve any purpose other than getting pleasure. Sex is meant for procreation. If we decriminalize homosexuality, then tomorrow we will have to change all our marriage and family laws. Even though homosexuality is not a crime in the US, only 7 out of 50 US states recognize gay marriage because they want to preserve the traditional family structure. Children growing up with gay parents will be confused about their identity and our society will
What baffles me is the morality stand on sexual preferences! Its high
time Indian society stops being moral police and let the nation be truly
democratic where individuals enjoy the right to follow their preferences
as long as its not harmful or dangerous to others. Argument regarding
the disease susceptibility is laughable. With that notion will you
consider banning heterosexuality since it is also associated with STDs
including HIV, human trafficking , teenage pregnancy and what not?!
A law officer from the office of the Solicitor General appears in court claiming to represent the views of the government. The government says that the views that he expressed in court are not the views of the government. It appears that either the office of the Solicitor General is in total disarray or the law officer exceeded his brief as lawyer to express his personal opinion with no regard to the views of his client, the government. In either case, surely a resignation is to be expected?
If someone starts a petition to send to the Home Ministry and the
Additional Solicitor General to urge them to drop their opposition to
the decriminalization of homosexuality, I'd be certain to sign it. As
one of the oldest civilizations on earth, India should be at the
forefront of personal liberty.
If every person, every caste, creed people are given equal rights then why not those who are homosexual. ASG says that it spreads diseases...those who do not practice homosexuality, could also spread diseases in the same way. Should that also be banned?
It is not the matter of bringing western culture in India. It is about someone's right to live their life. It is about their freedom.
This is hilarious! The SC did not ask the ASG for his personal opinion. In court s/he represents the Government and provides the Government's stand. When clowns rule, every one has a good laugh.
India is known for its culture. No one can approve gay in India. Let us
respect our heritage and culture. Gay sex should be banned at any cost.
We can not tolerate immoral activities. Character makes one and the
nation proud. Will any parent agree their children for this. Parents,
please spend time with your children and mould them in character.
With this law in force, the Government continues to intrude into our
lives telling us how we should behave in our bedrooms. Any act between
two consenting adults, is no business for the government. Period.
The Indian penal code was drafted in 1860, and brought into force 2
years later. The laws were written, keeping that day's society in mind
Homosexuals if convicted, could spend their entire in jail. Since
those days, society has changed a lot, but our rulers continue to
preach morality from the pulpits.
How can Mr. Malhotra say "Indian society disapproves of
homosexuality"? Has there been a referendum on this or does he speak
for all Indians, simply because of his position?
It is high time we scrapped this law and let us lead our private lives
the way we see fit. At the end, let us remember that no one is forced
to commit these "immoral" acts. Those who disagree have nothing to
lose if this law is scrapped. After all, the right to disagree is
enshrined in a democracy.
So the HM's legal pawns are not under its control?
The ASG argued on the side of those who want gay sex criminalized. How
is that assisting the SC? Moreover, he appeared in his capacity as the
ASG. Since when did the ASG get to randomly present their personal views
to the SC? If the ASG is in line, then the HM's present press release is
a big fat lie. If the ASG presented his personal views as the ASG he
should be removed.
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