Team of officers to hand over papers in person to prevent delay, says Brinda Karat
The External Affairs Ministry has said all documents required to seek handing over the custody of two Indian children, now growing up in the Child Protection Services in Stavanger (Norway), would be submitted to the authorities early next week.
The documents would be taken by a team of officers to Norway to ensure that there was no delay in getting the custody of Abhigyan and Aishwarya, Polit Bureau member of the Communist Party of India (Marxist) Brinda Karat told The Hindu here after speaking to officials in the Ministry of External Affairs.
Gunnar Torensen, head of the CPS in Stavanger, had told The Hindu in an interview that unless documents demanded by the authorities were received by them a week before the March 23 hearing of the case in the District Court, it could jeopardise the speedy return of the children.
The CPS that took the toddlers into custody in May last year after deciding that the parents were unable to look after them, had agreed to hand over their custody to their uncle. But, to do this, the authorities had on January 20, 2012 sought legal documents.
“I spoke to senior officials in the Foreign Office this [Saturday] morning and they have assured me on behalf of the External Affairs Minister that all documents would be handed over to the Child Protection Services early next week for further processing so that there are no further delays when the case comes up for hearing. I was also assured that senior officials from India would be visiting Norway again next week to further pursue the case,” Ms. Karat said.
Keywords: Norwegian laws, child protection, Bhattacharya couple, cultural differences, child custody, India-Norway ties
Mr. Virat
1. The alleged offence may not have been serious enough to warrant application of
other criminal laws or deportation under the Aliens Act. But could happen in cases
of abuse, battery, homicides etc. Again, no one knows. But an important element is
that the family was resident in Norway, not tourists.
2. If parents die in an accident in Norway, children will be placed in an emergency
foster home until more permanent arrangements such as adoption by close
relatives etc. can be worked out. If no relative steps forward, a foster home will be
found.
3. If Norwegian nationals die in India leaving behind toddlers, I presume the GOI
would do as in case 2 above. But I dont know the applicable laws of India.
CAVEAT: My analysis is cursory, I may well be wrong.
In the Bhattacharya case, the CWS insists-rightly or wrongly-that care must not
revert to the parents. Instead, a close relative, i.e. an uncle is in the process of
getting custody.
Laws decide, not emotions.
Mr. V Suresh: Democracy needs O P E N N E S S. Sir, We have also learnt a few Latin phrases and allow us some immodesty. Please advise your masters: ab abusu ad usum non valet consequentia (Consequences of abuse of something does not invalidate its usefulness). Also caution them: amittimus iisdem modis quibus acquirimus (we gain and lose by the same means). Watchout: Corruptisima re publica plurimae leges (In the most corrupt state are the most laws). Do not forget: leges mori serviunt (laws are subservient to custom). Finally it is indeed time to breakfree: libertas in legibus (liberty in the laws). We are curious to know your motivations behind appointing yourself as a staunch defendant of this misguided, unethical, illegal, imperious, self-righteous act. Do you genuinely believe that it was a honorable act that deserves accolades? Help us understand you.
Mr. Mohit: Calm down, the alleged offence was commited in Norway and Norwegian laws apply. Even the GOI is not disputing that. Case in point: Trials of the Italians who shot the Indian fishermen in Indian territorial waters are held in India, not in Italy. It is called "lex terrae", law of the land.
The complete dossier has not been published anywhere-that would be tantamount to disclosing extremely confidential information about minors who currently are not in the custody of the parents. Besides, such an action would be utterly un-ethical journalism, something I dont associate with The Hindu. Some journalists have released excerpts from the parents but these usually present things from their standpoint alone.
It may be of interest to you that similar confidentiality clauses can be found in child welfare legislation in USA, UK & Ireland. But then along with Norway, they are presumably non-democratic countries in your book.Lyder Horn reminds you rightly of stones, glass houses...
@LH: Ok understood, the Indian parents were abusing Indian children therefore the Indian children should be sentenced for 18 years to a Norsk foster home with no access to Indian relatives, kith and kin because at the time abuse happened they were on Norwegian soil. Super. I have 3 questions:
1) Why are these Indian parents not tried and punished for their excesses. Is violation of human rights not a punishable crime, in Norway? 2) Suppose the Indian parents were not abusing, they were loving and caring but unfortunately they die in an accident, leaving the Indian children as orphans in Norway. Would Barnevernet still sentence them for 18 years to a Norwegian foster home? Or in that situation they would come up with some other solution? 3) Suppose Norwegian parents resident in India unfortunately die in an accident leaving their Norwegian toddlers behind as orphans in India. What should GoI do in that situation? Kindly enlighten.
@Mohit: Democracy does not anywhere or in any way translate to children
being the assets of their parents, with whom they can do whatever they
please. Children have human rights on their own. That means, among other
things, the right to grow up in a safe place without being afraid of
what will happen to them from one day to another.
Sorry, Lyder Horn, you Norwegians can keep repeating the same litany about nobody knowing anything about the Bhattacharya case. We know enough about the case in India to be able to conclude that your legal system is a farce, and that the Bhattacharyas are not guilty of any crime. You give a very poor account of the understanding of democracy in your country.
@Madan Mohan: Does anyone know just how corrupt, arbitrary and unjust
the Indian court system really is? How many cases are dismissed
because the person in question is sufficiently powerful or because the
right palms are greased? If you are so well informed about Indian
courts, Mohan, it would be great if you could share your insights with
the rest of us.When citizens of India are violating the rules of the country where they have themselves chosen to live, like in this case, it is clearly up to the host country to take action.
Neither of us are aware of what has actually happened in the case of the Bhattacharyas - it is confidential. That confidentiality is meant to protect the children, not any government institution. And it is certainly not up to the media or the general public to know about. This case will now soon be resolved, and you can all run off an shout about some other "injustice".
@Lyder Horn: About the state of the Indian courts we at least we know ourselves.But what we have see about the Norwegian legal system is a revelation to us of how bad things can get. At least we haven't reached such a low level yet.
India is under no obligation to accept the ridiculous decisions of any country over its own citizens. India has made it clear to the Norwegian government that this is a case of de facto kidnapping, and I am very glad about this.
@Madan Mohan: It is not up to the Government of India to "allow"
Norwegian institutions to decide anything. This case is clearly within
the jurisdiction of another sovereign state, and all India can do is to
collaborate with Norwegian authorities on the matter. Which is exactly
what is being done. I would suggest you refrain from commenting on the
Norwegian judicial system when we are all aware of the sorry state of
Indian courts.
The government of India has committed a serious mistake by allowing the Norwegians to decide this matter in their courts.From what we have seen of the Norwegian system so far it appears that courts in Norway can be easily manipulated.
The chances the Norwegian gov (by the cps, which acts like they are the government) will have something to add to the content of those documents are most likely. I'm saying this based on experience from 6 years working against cps-abuse in scandinavia. But then again, if the Indian government and the media keep up the pressure and keep focusing on theese inhuman actions by the Norwegian cps, there is hope of getting those two small children back to India.
I wish you all the best luck in doing so and my thoughts goes to the children and they`re family.
Bishop, you assert that "no law can be made by any state to deprive children of their God
given right to be cared for by their parents." If that was true, it would be a gross deprivation
of human rights to children. Some of the worst cases of child abuse happen in close family
relationship. This is hardly unknown to the church, much less to children who have been
taken out of their family home and cared for by government agencies like the Norwegian
Child Welfare Services, or in other countries with a well-functioning welfare state. It is
appalling that prominent citizens of a country like India, where so many children are living in
the most scandalous and abusive conditions, are trying to make this into a matter of political
and nationalistic posturing. Have you checked the conditions of the children of your
underaged Nepali maid lately?
What are the chances of the Norwegians saying that the documents are inadequate, and that the children will never be returned to India? I wouldn't entirely discount that possibility.
The Norwegian authorities have shown by their actions that they cannot be trusted. I would like to request the Indian media and the Indian government to keep up the pressure in this matter.
Mr.Dawes, Thanks.Within 1000 characters
for comment,let me pinpoint that the basic problem involved in the totally unacceptable abduction of 2 small children by the CPS is that no law can be made by any state to deprive children of their God given right to be cared for by their parents. The state can interfere in this only on gravest circumstances,and that only after proper warnings,as done in Canada,where I live.
Your ambassador to U.S. is reported saying that you have to keep the law.It is like the Grand Inquisitor ordering torture and death to keep the law,or Shariat law or Taliban ordering women stoned to death for immorality.You may do it to your own citizens,but not to children foreign citizens an guests.The 2 young children are my co-citizens.Please convey to your P.M.my request to inform court that your Govt.has no objection to the children being sent back to India.
Thank you for coming up with such an assuring explanation and for dispelling the myths ssurrounding this case, indeed very nice of you and your honesty is humbling . Yes we all make errors in appointing/ supervising employees in govt service/ private sector. We nonresident Indian diaspora don’t hold entire Norway accountable for the mistakes committed by few persons. Please note that no Indian would ever believe that the couple has abused the toddlers, especially when the financial situation of family is not dithering and in the absence of psychiatric issues afflicting the couple..
As a naturalized American citizen Iam surprised that such flimsy reasons form the thrust of ‘noble cause’ of saving the toddlers! My 2 kids were born and raised in England and America. I never heard of nappy changing table apart from seeing it in the airports and the like. Mine slept with us many nights and were always hand fed, in spite of having 2 spare bedrooms!!
My name is Edward Dawes (NRI.I am deputy councillor (Labour Party) and leader of the Immigration Council Eidsvoll. I have also received an international award (please Google my name with India) for being a social critic in Norway.
My Foreign Minster ( also from AP Labour Party) is also concerned. He is a very fine diplomat. He will seek the best solution. And the same goes for my PM Mr Stoltenberg who has visited India a number of times. Both these gentlemen are very concerned and cautious and am sure are on top of the case.. I am also confidant that the departmental head of the Child Protection Office Reidar Hjermann will also see the onus in this case.
They is no law or petition that says that children cannot be hand fed or should have their own bedroom or a play corner..
The state TV NRK had a similar case concerning an European family who had to flee. Both families had some sort of autism related to their siblings. Both the families approached the health authorities for help and in turn were removed as parents. That, in my view, does not amount to being a bad parent. Stavanger Commune has also had the spotlight on them concerning children from Turkey who were handed over to foster parents. The foster father was later convicted of being a paedophile. The health authorities have now uncovered 40 cases of violation from 49 child protection offices. This is very alarming and many locals have expressed their concern. . The media has not yet pointed out that the head of the State (Fylkesmann) had rejected the petition from the Child Protection office Stavanger. This judgement was set aside by the lower court. And the main contention was whether the family used a nappy table for changing nappies or not. The Child Protection accused them amongst other things of not using the nappy changing table. The head of the State said that the parents did have any nappy changing table at all. However, the lower court meant that it was not relevant whether they had a table or not and rejected the decision made by the head of the state.
Since we have coalition government, the Minister responsible for this agency is from the left wing party called SV. And they are in mess. The Minister had to resign early this week for corruption and funding his own party groups. Today the leader of this Party Ms Halvorsen has also been implicated in such malpractices.
As i see it the qualifications of some of those involved from the child protection office in Stavanger can be questioned. There is no denying that they also do a lot of good for children but sometimes they become an authority onto themselves. If you are interested in more details please contact me
ntsalgarve@yahoo.no
tlf 004797769069
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