They cite unsuitable toys and clothes, insufficient room for children to play
Among the reasons listed by Norwegian child welfare authorities for taking away the three-year-old son and one-year-old daughter of an expatriate Indian couple were unsuitable toys and clothes, insufficient room for the children to play in the house and the son not having his own bed.
The couple, Anurup and Sagarika Bhattacharya, have battled the Child Welfare Services in Stavenger, 500 km from the Norwegian capital, for the last eight months against these and other perceived shortcomings in their parenting.
It began when, acting on complaints from the local child care centre at Stavenger, where Anurup works as a geo-scientist with American firm Halliburton, the couple were placed under observation by the area's state-run Child Welfare Services.
After a few visits, on May 12, 2011, child welfare workers took away the Bhattacharyas' son, who was then two, and five-month-old daughter and placed them in an emergency shelter.
Four days later, the parents appealed the case before the County Board, which hears appeals in child welfare and social cases.
The Board was sympathetic to the couple. This is what it said:
“The county has noted that there is a danger that the child could fall down from the bathinette and hurt itself. During the case, it became clear that the couple does not own a basinette/diaper-changing table. The child's diapers are being changed on a bed, an arrangement much lower than a traditional Norwegian basinette/diaper-changing table.
‘No accidents'
“To this point, there have been no accidents while changing the diapers of the child… The most important and conclusive point being: There was no emergency in the home prior to the Child Welfare Services' first visit in the family home. The problems occurred after representatives from the Child Welfare Services arrived in the home. The mother got scared when it dawned on her that the Child Welfare Services' might place her children outside of their own home. That was a difficult situation, but the problems of this situation should have been solved in a different and more thought-out way, as opposed to deciding to send the children to an emergency shelter.”
On the 23rd of May, the county board concluded: “The requirements of the law for emergency decisions of this kind were not fulfilled when the decision was made. The conditions for maintaining the decision are not fulfilled either… In the short term, there is reason to believe that the conditions of the home will change, as the parents of the mother are coming to Norway to help their daughter. The decision to place the children outside the home is hereby cancelled.”
New turn
The Child Welfare Service appealed the sentence in the city court of Stavanger, where the case took a new turn.
Its list of complaints against the parents was long. It said it had “severe doubts” about the parents' ability to take care of their children, stating that its main concern was that the mother did not “maintain” the children's emotional needs.
The mother had admitted to slapping the son at one point, but the Child Welfare Service noted that this was something she had never done again after she became aware that it was illegal under Norwegian law.
Further, it listed other reasons, such as the house not having sufficient room to play, and toys that were not age-suitable for the children, the son not having his own bed, or linen or suitable clothes for his size.
Mother's behaviour
It expressed concern over the way the mother interacted with the infant daughter. Noting that she handled the daughter with “sudden movements” it concluded she was unable to hold the child in a proper way. It said that the when the mother breast-fed the infant, she put her on her lap without holding her, holding the head against the breast, but not close to her body.
The court decided that both the children would be taken from their home, and that the time the parents would be allowed to meet their children would be set to two hours, twice a year.
The court also pointed out that the grandparents' visit to Norway, which the county board had emphasised as positive for the family, was for a limited time and would not have an effect on the children's situation in a long term perspective.
It described the family situation as “constant and urgent.”
When the Bhattacharyas' children were taken away from them, their daughter, then aged five months, was still breast feeding.
The two siblings are now in two different “ethnic” foster homes.
Earlier, the Child Welfare Services had suggested that the parents be allowed to meet the children twice a year for two hours each, but the country board revised it in November that the two cannot be reunited with their parents until they turn 18 in 2026 and 2028; until then, the two children would be allowed to spend three hours a year with their parents, in three separate visits, lasting an hour each.
This article has been adapted for The Hindu from the Norwegian weekly magazine Ny Tid ("New Time"). It was translated from the original by Joe Ekker.
As someone of Norwegian descent, I can only shake my head at this insanity. How could permanent separation of children from their parents be possibly better than the claimed possible damage to the children by staying with their parents? I note that they don't define 'inadequate clothes', or inadequate play area; no Norwegian flats are big. Conversely, I wonder if Norwegian authorities would do this to a Muslim family, and if they'd be accused of being anti-islamic.
I have lived in Norway and would vouch for the country as a whole.But in this case the Barnevernet has clearly bungled and is trying to justify its indefensible actions by hiding behind confidentiality laws and other nitty gritties.To any person who can see the larger picture its inconceivable to separate children from their parents for the flimsy reasons mentioned.The mere fact that the country frequently tops the human right indexes mean very little :)That doesnt mean they can dictate to people how children must be brought up or the Norwegian way is superior.Recently a top politician in norway was found guilty of charges of sex with minors and he is send to jail for 60days:)) And here chidren are separated for a lifetime from natural parents on flimsy grounds. That is how learned and moronic these idiots can get.
Dear whoever wanted to know how many white children are taken out of their homes in Norway: You are right. Norwegian authorities take more non-Norwegian children away from their parents than ethnic Norwegian ones. Norway has already been reprimanded for this by the European Union. There were similar cases in Norwegian media in 2011, e.g. a Polish child that contacted a Polish private detective and asked to be abducted from the emergency home.
I think that the children cannot live without parents and i think that they must ask the children whether they want to live with their parents or in the home till they are 18. I am sure that no child of the indian origin cannot live without parents.
@Soma: Why should the Norwegians take a crash course in Asian Customs 101? The Asian are the ones who go to their country. The asians, like us are the ones who need to take crash course in Western/Norwegian Customs 101.
@Rebecca: This is not the US we are talking about. This is Norway, a country listed always in the top 5 of the human development indices. To all those who haven't been to Norway and USA, Norway has higher standards and is more prosperous per person than USA.
It was very alarming to see Indians siding with the Norwegians simply because the Bhattacharyas chose to work in Norway. Do we know their reasons for doing so? And which mother would under-dress her child in bitter cold? Follow the laws of the country? What kind of laws are they talking about? By aping everything that they do? There is a BIG difference between laws and customs. It is mandatory to follow the former. As someone correctly pointed out, it is cultural insensitivity. Once the Scandanavians do a crash course on Asian Customs 101, they would be better equipped for their jobs!
They don't have a diaper changing table? Someone would actually consider THAT an emergency? They need to travel to Memphis, TN, USA & work at child services. DIAPER changing tables? Try cardboard boxes, upside down garbage cans, stovetops. Or better yet, diaper doesn't even get changed.
Not enough room to play inside? (that sounds very discriminatory to poor people) I once saw 1 bedroom house in the 'hood' where a woman & her 8 children lived. Oh, & also, her sister died so HER 7 kids lived there too. Also a girl who appeared to be 11 years old had a newborn. Yes, 16 kids. I saw 3 or 4 mattresses, sheetless, on top of some cardboard boxes. That was their 1 bedroom. I also cannot believe they terminated parental rights based on these items. Toys not right, clothing not right - take a parenting class & remove 'offending' toys, not, 'your kids are gone forever' that is just insane. Termination of rights should be reserved for sexual & physical abuse or severe neglect/starvation.
Some facts. The comments by indian readers covers everything for and against the norwegian Social Welfare system and the parents involved and I must commend you for this. Norwegian aurhorities have overall one guideline called "the childs best", but cultural differences alone, will hardly ever cause removal of the child unless there are serious reasons according to norwegian laws. Beating and slapping is not allowed, and somali parents have complained that norwegian authorities in too many cases take custody of their children, The facts: about 11 300 children was placed in fostercare by 2010 and 2000 had "minoritybackground". Since 2004 the number of children removed from their parents increased. The Govt. seriously look into the reasons why this is. The increase of asylumseekers from far away countries, some carrying severe traumas, will perhaps explain. The attept og the Govt. to get fosterparets among immigrants are not successful. About 100 children are waiting for new homes.
@Sriva
Why should the Norwegian government be sensitive about other country's
cultures? It's the Indians who went to Norway on their own will,
nobody was forced. When you go on your will, you must accede to the
host's culture and norms - "when in Rome, do as the Romans do".
Your questions can also be answered. The Norwegian govt. would have
done the same thing if they the child and parents were Norwegian too.
Sometimes, parents can be abusive to their children. In these cases,
the child services has to step in. It is their standards, not ours.
Personally, I would prefer their standards because as a child I was
beaten by my parents too, just like any other ordinary kid. I hate it!
As a parent, if you can't teach you child without beating him/her,
then that's not good parenting as your are putting the kid in
emotional and psychological stress. When I become a parent, I am
definitely not going to do it.
The governments need to be sensitive about other country's cultures. The
question is what Norwegian govt. (Child Services) would have done in
case of its own nationalities. Nowhere in the world, it must be allowed
to impose so called "Standards". A parent is a best judge and can only be advised.
@ Srini, Sadhan. Very true of your comments and commendable. @Roshan, dont try to be hero. If you are so patriotic come back to India. Dont be a traitor where you have your bread and bed. Almost all of the readers who posted their comments here, have no idea or ignorant about the rules of another country. We cant question the rules of Norway since they are applicable to all its residents and citizens. If its not binding to whom so ever, they better pack and leave. So many readers here express their patriotism of India. In that case, why none of you have advised the affected people to come back to India. You want the platter as well on your conditions.
This whole thing sounds atrocious. It’s absurd to take away the child like giving a reason that the mother did not hold the baby properly while breast feeding. Fine. Now what did they do? Take away the kid..Don’t they think they are damaging the bond more by doing such absurd things? I hope the Indian govt. extends its fullest support and bring back the family together. The Norwegian Child welfare service should be taught about how to handle cultural differences and to handle things in more matured way.
Clearly the Norwegian idea of child welfare is totally different from that of the Indian authorities. Where as an American woman could abandon a baby in the Passport office with impunity in India, ill advised Indians in Norway lose their children based on poor understanding of foreign culture by the local authorities. Both countries need to seek a happy medium.
To them who are supporting Norway govt- Can that person feel the pain of 5 months child departed from mother. You have to be mother and feel the pain. No security, safety .... can stand before a mother's love for her child. Be a mother and then discuss.
What happened in Norway was unfortunate. I cannot even imagine the ordeal and trauma that they had been through in the last few months. Since we are living in UK, we kind of know the way system works in western world, where every human life is valued. Every Child Matters is the policy here. They do not discriminate children against race, religion and colour. Scandinavian countries enjoy highest standard of living in the world. Migrated population must play by the rule book,learn, adapt and integrate if they want to live away from their home country. If this is a problem, we should pack and leave. Period. This does not justify the way the NRI family was treated. I believe the whole issue could have been handled in a better manner to provide an amicable solution to all. A lack of understanding of cultural differences by everyone has played a part. Do we, in India, truly understand and appreciate the western culture, which is not only drinking and pre-martial love making.
A repeat of Katherine Mayo's Mother India in 2012. Unbelievably shocking that the Norwegian authorities would allow the children to be taken from their own parents under the most trivial charges. 'not holding the baby close to her while breastfeeding'. My sympathies are with the young parents, especially the mother. This must be very traumatic for her, as well as for the children. How about taking the NOrwegian social services to the International Court?
I certainly approve the actions taken by Norwegians. I am an Indian
living in Australia and I like the way the state actually takes care
of the children who are abused by their parents. Before Indians from
India start judging the Norwegians, they should understand that Norway
is a much more TOLERRANT and UNDERSTANDING culture than us, Indians. I
actually appreciate the Norwegians for stepping in and taking care of
the child. They have HIGHER STANDARDS of child welfare and safety. For
all you Indians complaining this is racist, I have been in YOUR
POSITION myself and it emerges from the fact that we have FAILED TO
UNDERSTAND and INTEGRATE TO THEIR CULTURE and is also because of our
INFERIOR ATTITUDE which makes us think that all the misfortunes placed
upon us might have a racist element to them. I see a lot of Indians
complaining that Australians do not want to give Indians jobs because
they are racist. Perhaps if they improve their communications skills,
they will be employed.
To all those posters who think that the family can simply come back, please get some facts before you post. The parents cannot get their children back, because the Norwegians have taken away custody from them. This cannot happen in India because the state cannot become the guardian of a child in India, but in the "civilised" West it is legal. The Scandinavian countries were notorious for snatching minority children away from their parents, and this so-called child care system of theirs goes back to a time before democracy was established. Obviously they haven't learned the lessons of history. Moreover, the children are citizens of India, not of Norway. Being born in a country does not automatically confer citizenship. Therefore, the Indian government should keep up the pressure on the Norwegian government. Take the matter to the UN if necessary. There is only one way to describe this act of cruelty. It is barbaric - the very opposite of civilisation.
Besides culture, customs, etc, the key thing is the keep the children
with the parents and educate them as the local aspects of child rearing
in that country. This has not even been attempted - it appears so.
Simply removing the children - that too at that tender age - is simply
cruel.
What complete horsemanure and complete lack of cultural understanding.. and taking things to the extreme. I live in the US, my children are raised the way I was raised. Children sleeping with parents on same bed is recognised as a cultural thing and have never heard of children being taken away for this. Even childwelfare understand that.. Never owned a diaper changing table, our children sleep with us.. big deal. I remember a time when western culture said don't breast feed.. they keep going around in circles all the time and keep taking things too literally and to the extreme..
Nowhere is there are any instances of abuse or chronic neglect mentioned. There is just a long list of nitpicks! Are all Norwegian parents mindless robots, or are Indians being singled out like the Aborigines in Australia in the past, as unfit parents? Most Indians have a far closer relationship with their parents compared to these super-developed societies where parents generally hear from their children only on Mother's Day or Father's Day! Parenting is not just about mindless compliance and bassinets...
It is difficult to challenge the Norwegian law and customs. There is proverb: "be Roman, if you are at Rome". This couple did not know the law of the land and wanted to live like a typical Indian family and living style in a foreign land. but ignorance of law is not an excuse. Regarding the way to get the children back to India: if the children were born in India and are Indian citizens, there should be no problem getting them to India through the efforts of the Indian Consulate (foreign minister Mr. Krishna has taken personal interest and appealed). If the children were born in Norway and are considered Norwegian citizens by the law there, the parents can still get Indian passport for the kids by applying to the Indian Consulate as Indian parents have a right to apply for their children Indian passports irrespective of where they are born. If the parents were tempted and taken Norwegian passport for the kids, then their rights are limited as then they may not get Indian passport.
We are well aware of this cultural difference problem- the western world has different rules and believes more on social support systems rather than the love and affection of parents or blood relations. The assumption in Indian culture is that there is no place better than home and nobody better than parents, in particular the mother, and in most cases grand parents to look after children. In the western world, so called child abuse accusation on parents is quite common and children have lots of rights against parents (for example they can call police if a parent slaps a child). This is true even in countries with more immigrants like the USA, Canada, and Australia. But due to large number of immigrants, over a period of time, a bit of cultural understanding and sensitivity has come in those "immigrant countries". Norway being a non-immigrant country, they are likely to be more culturally insensitive. This is the reason, better to leave the children at India if parents are to be abroad
Interesting article and funny comments. As said in first comments we Indians should try to know about the customs of the other places if they chooses to live there. Otherwise will be in this sort of trouble only. You can say this is similar to one problem we face in Australia. I read in an article written by an English lady that Norway Government is (trying to)take care of all problems since the day one of the pregnancy. I think it goes even after birth and continues for many years to come. They were taught to live to the new environment. This lady being in the country more than four years and definitely given birth both kids there should have know it. May be our typical Indian mentality she did not follow and landed in trouble. I do not blame only the authorities and I only pity on the kids. If we want to live in other country as said by S N Iyer (first comment) we should learn how to live there. All the best to the kids.
Before people migrate to a western country, they must get information from embassies information pertaining to laws, customs and the status of children born in the country they migrate to. One can not get a true picture from sensational TV news. The children were seperated from their parents for several months. Why the parents kept mum until now. they could have told Norwegian authorities that they want to return to india when their children were removed from their home. Did the parent want to work until his visa expired. Early pictures of children showed fear in their eyes. Glad to hear the children will live with their grand parents.
Many readers seem to be misinformed that the children are having 'Norwegian' passports.That's not True. The Children were born in India.The Parents were denied even visiting rights except for 2-3 hrs per year.They have Visa until march 6th,but couldn't come as the Children were taken away.The Indian Embassy were taking some action but couldn't do much until it was publicised here. This thing is routine in Norway & Barneverne seems quite powerful &all encompassing. Glad that at least now things are coming to light.
Dear Mr. Kumar: While you find snatching a child who was on breast feeding inhuman but yet at the same time you seem to condone the fact that the mother used to beat the child. That's double standard. The fact is that India has been too lenient with the parents, many of whose' behavior towards their child has been highly atrocious and violent. I think such laws should be applied to India also so that kids can have an easy life.
Its really sad to read this. I don't know, but please people raise your voice, if there are some lawyers in this forum and if its possible please file PIL and start a facebook/twitter campain to stop this brutality, at least let us help the couple get back there children and return to India. In one of the comment by S N Iyer, The craze to live in a foreign country has resulted in these NRIs not knowing the law of that country and hence landing in this kind of trouble. We cannot challenge the laws of Norway and it would be better for the couple to come back to India. A piece of advice to all Indians who want to become NRIs, please learn the laws and customs of the country you are planning to go.
The best the NRI Couple can do, is get back to india, live with their kids. They could take jobs elsewhere, even in India. theres no use commenting on a flawed system. UK has similar regulations. While in India, we love our tradition and culture. One of the reasons - the kids and parents sleeping in the same bed. My son sleeps in the same bed with me and my wife. If any agency comes to take away my son, i would pound them to pulp. I am indian and am proud of it.
It is shocking, ridiculous state of Human Rights Violation which the Indian Govt. should protest. Norway, a country that holds itself high in holding such such values has just shown its true colours. I would like to know if every Norweigian parent provided their children with so called proper toys and changed their diapers in a so called proper heighted diaper table. I'm shocked that the Norweigian call themselves humane or civilised by any standards, if this is the precedent they are putting forward.
What an inhuman story. A breastfeeding girl baby of 5 months being snatched away from her mother! In India it is said that a mother is a mother even if she is mad...and here we have the Norwegian authorities snatching away babies based on seemingly farcical, ridiculous, racist and beastly thinking. Shame on the Indian Consulate and the Indian Govt for doing too little too late.
Agreed that Norwegian laws have turned Viking. But, it is surprising that the parents continue to stay back in Norway after all this. Can't they just ask for the children's custody and return to India? Is career more important than children? Eight months of separation indicates that there is something more to the story than just Norwegian crankiness.
First thing that came to my mind after reading this news is what is population growth rate of Norway.It is only 0.5% for north Norway that means many couple in north Norway does not have thier own child.This is simply a child abduction misusing law.I would suggest Norwegian people to go to poor countries and adopt orphans for thier parenting needs rather than doing this type of inhuman acts.
In India 80% of child does not have facilities they are asking for and still Indian children are flourishing and have better biological sustainability.Certainly Love and care is more important than physical luxuries.Which law can justify importance of any luxuriy over the need of breast feeding and love of child's mother. Shame on Norwagian law.Now I feeling more Proud to be an Indian!!!!
It is a very complicated situation. As Srinadh J correctly mentions, the parents are probably immigrants on a temporary visa, while the children are Norwegian citizens. In this situation, the state has the legal right to protect its citizens from being brought up badly, as the definition is for Norwegian kids.>
Releasing kids into grandparents custody is also complicated. Unlike what most newspapers in India assume, it is not custody in India, but in Norway. Do the grandparents have the means to bring up the kids in Norway until they are 18 years old. Probably not. In that case, they will not get custody.
The only easy solution is the Indian taxpayer or some rich person donates enough money to keep this family, grandparents and all in Norway until the kids are 18 years old. Is that possible? One never knows.
In a country where 3 and 5 year old children begging in the street is a common sight, hundreds of children dying due to object hunger is not an issue, parents and teachers claim thier right to beat thier children, FGM and child marriage is not a serious crime, it is no suprise that the norwegian government's action has come as rude shock to many.
Earlier our ambassador in UK cited immunity after being arrested for wife-beating. Now our politicians and media claiming what happened at Norway as just a cultural difference. It seems our level of tolerance towards crime against children and women stretches too far.
The girl child was whisked away from her mother at the age of 5 months when the mother was still breast feeding the baby. It’s an inconsolable loss for the parents to lose 2 children to foster care at a very young age especially when they had dedicated all their love in bringing up their children in their own traditional way. Besides, for a child, the world will revolve around their parents and they would have suffered more mental torture than what the Norway government claims.
The Norway government should have given a chance for the parents to undergo a counseling session and make them understand the strict laws of their government before initiating this foster care program for the children. Last but not least, the proverb ‘When in Rome be a Roman’ makes more sense now in these kind of situations. Our prayers for the family to be re-united sooner.
There is obviously nothing incriminating in the charges. I found a news report in the Norwegian site "Dagbladet" dated 19th Jan. Translated, it reads thus: "They have managed to mobilize some violent political. There is a strong reaction from the Indian community by the [b] parents belong to the upper caste in India [/b]. In general, this is a special case which differs from the regular child care. It is rare that they have a case with a geophysicist in a multinational company that earns a million a year, says Svendsen. "
It proves beyond doubt that this Svendsen fellow has an agenda other than "child welfare", and is out to prove a political point. Not just should the children be returned, I hope this entire wretched organisation is tried under a International Court of Justice for gross human rights violation.
Have these Norwegians gone crazy?I haven't heard anything more ridiculous than this.And as the other readers have been asking,what have the Indian authorities been doing all these days?
The childcare authorities of Norway are insensitive and utterly callous. I guess they do not realise the most important thing to a child is the unconditional love of her parents .....toys tables chairs etc are only secondary. Unfortunately the Norway authorities give more importance to materialistic comforts. No wonder they are surprised at how happy, content and cheerful most Indian children are (even though most of them don't even know what a diaper is let alone a diaper changing table !!!) The Children should be returned to India asap.
This is very tough situation for parents as well as children. I was really shocked when I read this news. To the hell with these nonsense laws. I don't think anybody else can bring up their children better their parents. Wondering how the govt thought childcare homes can bring these kids better.
I being a parent cant imagine the pain the parents must be going through and also the confusion in the little kids at this time. As some one rightly said if Nor govt had an issue they shoudl asked the family to leave the coutnry.. its as simple as that rather than creating this situation for this family. I wonder who framed this law in that country. Prob he or she didn't have kids. Wondering if there is anyway we can support this family reunite.
It is heart-breaking to note that the three-year-old son and one-year-old daughter of an expatriate Indian couple was taken away by the Norwegian child welfare authorities, for incompetent handling of child care norms of that country. It is realism that the parents, who might not have mingled freely with the local residents and who have not embraced the local culture, were an eyesore for the neighbours, which resulted in the visit by the Child Welfare Services. In any case, the punishment awarded also is too unforgiving, which allows the parents to meet their children only for two hours, twice a year. Irrespective of whether the parents are expatriate Indians or not, it is really painful that the tiny tots are deprived of parental care, and the parents would be denied of their right to nurture them. Considering the conditions existing in India and other Asian countries it would be desirable that the Indian Government approach the appropriate Norwegian authority.
What this and other news items are not mentioning is the citizenship status of the children. If the children were born in Norway, then they would be Norwegian citizens. In our terminology and understanding, the Western nations have 'nationalized the family'. Indians are a strongly family oriented society and the Western nations are strongly individualist society. While India is extremely sensitive to cultural backgrounds and preferences, Western nations' space for cultural diversity is extremely limited. In any case, depriving children of their parents (and the other way) for reasons like toys, diaper table, seperate bed etc., can only be seen as DRACONIAN. It is so unscientific, can anybody make up for a parent by giving the child better toys and diaper table!? The children are being subject to untold atrocity by denying them their natural parents, this is unpardonable violation of human rights. My cousins in the West took care that children are Indian citizens, that is safe!
Yet another example to prove that the law can be an ass; in this case,
that title belongs to the Child Welfare Service and the judge of the
city court of Stavanger. Their actions demonstrate an inherent attitude
of racial and cultural superiority, an utter lack of curiosity about
cultures other than theirs and an amazing lack of common sense. May one
hope that the government of a self-respecting nation will intervene at
the highest level with Norwegian authorities and act to reverse this
travesty?
The Norway , like every other nation , has its own culture and ethos - which we cannot question . The point is , why the Bhattacharya's cannot return to India with the kids ? Did any of them sought Citizenship ? Did the couple applied for immigration ? These are the Q the media must address and clear .
Since both children are Indian citizens, India should ask Norway to hand them over to the state of India. Then the state can decide under its own laws whether to have the children given to the parents.What Norway has done is a violation of human rights and have emotionally scarred the children. I believe India should approach the UN if Norway refuses.
Definitely there was little sensitivity shown towards the children by the mother but unfortunately there seems to be not enough evidence in the hands of the Norway's Child Welfare Services to prove their overall point. Awareness to Child Rights is minimum or near non-existent in India -- many women who protest against abuse by their husbands themselves seem to indulge in child-abuse in India -- such behaviour does not help anyone. Solution is to have comprehensive sections on Child Rights in school text books along with some medium of education to parents in happy parenting.
All these allegation of the local agency and people comes due to racisim and hatered of local population to expatriate staffs of multinational companies, since expats draw huge salary and locala population has feeling of losing their jobs. I felt similar experience during my stay in Netherlands and it is tru for any country. There are always different sets of rules and enforcement of rules to local and expat populations in the aim to harrasss them so that they should leave the country and the job.
The Status of Parents in the religion
"Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or more attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honor. And out of kindness, lower to them the wing of humility, and say, "my Lord! bestow on them Thy Mercy, even as they cherished me in childhood." (Quran 17: 23,24)
All religions and all societies have given parents an honorable status. From a purely material viewpoint, we find ourselves indebted to our parents, particularly our mother. She not only nourished us in her womb, but went through pain and suffering. She loved us even before we were born. She toiled when we were totally helpless infants. She spent sleepless nights caring for us. Our parents as a team provided for all our needs: physical, educational, psychological, and in many instances, religious, moral, and spiritual.........
I am sure the case is not unusual in Norway where I understand there are thousands of children under foster care. The country's laws and cultural norms are very different to ours.(We do not change diapers on a table!!)
It is difficult to understand why the Indian Embassy did not step in; why an Indian court could not ask the grandparents to take custody of the children, who are Indian citizens, and bring them back to India; why Mr. Bhattacharya's employers did not repatriate them, they are due to return very soon anyway.
Unbelievable! What the world has come to!! Such a system when courts are allowed to make stupid, uncalled for intereference in such an unhuman manner should undergo drastic surgery.
This is hardly the way a civilized state should function. What is bizarre is that in the name of civilization, this country is doing things aborginal like snatching away chidlren from their parents. India should protest seriuosly. If this is the way, westerners want the immigrants to integrate their culture and traditions, instead of 'damning those jobs' shame those countries in the comity of nations. Norway should be in the mental blacklist of Indians.
The basis for removing the children are totally ridiculous!! can't the bed be used for changing diapers instead of a narrow diaper changing table? As long as the baby breastfeeds and is doing well how does the technique matter? Does anyone in Norway have common sense? Or is this a trick of child protective services to steal kids from Non-Norwegian parents and receive money to keep their organization alive? Is this a show of superior culture, race and religion trying to impose their dogmas and unscientific theories on others? So may questions. It must be heart-rending for the parents. Please campaign to reunite the family.
I grew up in Norway and live in America. Norway is full of racists especially the further you go out of Oslo. Good luck to the parents. I am glad I don't live in a place like Norway anymore.
I firmly believe the Norwegian authorities intention is to apply the rule rather than have the welfare of the child as the foremost priority. In no other civilization would a authority step into separate a weaning child of just five months for frivolous reasons. It is nothing short of barbarism. Hope the authorities would wake up and give the children back to the biological mother.
Separating children from their parents with extreme restrictions on
meeting is highly regressive in the context of a modern society which
claims to be highly evolved in the civilization aspect. The image
created is that of a "plastic" and "robotic" existence in that society where human emotions, love, bonds and other feelings have no place. It is downright cruel to separate children from parents at such a tender age - a society which cannot understand the immense emotional damage that a child can suffer due to separation from parents and claims to be caring for their welfare needs to introspect. The law cannot be so intrusive as to violate basic human relationships in the name of care for children. There is definitely a case for resolution of any issue of poor parenting through counselling, assistance by psychologists and parenting mentors if required, rather than the extreme step of separation. Hope that the ordeal will soon be over and the family
would be re-united.
The deep question is, where does parental authority taper off and where does the responsibility of the State begin, in the matter of raising children.In India, we are used to the situation where the State cares much less than the parent, and the parent's authority is held supreme, which is logical under such conditions. It is noted that the Norwegian State places a high level of importance on safety and quality. Probably much, much more than the average Indian parent. Placed against individual liberties and sanctity of the family, this raises deep questions indeed.
Is this a joke? If this Norwegian authority visit India, they will have
to take away 99.99% of them with them.
It is time to recollect prophetic and candid lecture "World split
apart" by Soviet physicist Alexander Solzhenitsyn at Harvard on June
8, 1978 " the blindness of superiority continues in spite of all and
upholds the belief that vast regions everywhere on our planet should
develop and mature to the level of present day Western systems which
in theory are the best and in practice the most attractive. There is
this belief that all those other worlds are only being temporarily
prevented by wicked governments or by heavy crises or by their own
barbarity or incomprehension from taking the way of Western
pluralistic democracy and from adopting the Western way of life.
Countries are judged on the merit of their progress in this
direction. However, it is a conception which developed out of
Western incomprehension of the essence of other worlds, out of the
mistake of measuring them all with a Western yardstick. The real
picture of our planet's development is quite different."
Shocking. This behaviour on the part of Norwegian authorities amounts to mental cruelty to the children, parents and grandparents.
Unless there was genuine abuse and harm inflicted on the children, the claims of
Norwegian Authorities seem absolutely ridiculous to separate the children from the parents. While Norway may be a developed, perhaps in a social sense, may be over developed country for the good of mankind. Norway must seriously examine it's laws, and determine if they are humane. Clearly, Norway has no idea how the poor of the world live, and bring up their children. And if Norway believes it knows best, how come Children from Developing countries are happy and doing well.
No wonder the number of Child abusrs and child traffickers have been on the rise from Norway. Any society which forcibly separate the children from their parents for not providing a Separate bed, ought to be pulled by Human Rights organization and Must seriously question it's laws. Indian Authorities must prevail upon Norwegian Authorities to release the Children immediately.
Norwegian authorities have set unparalleled act of crutelty totally commensurate with the generally held image of Norway, a democratic country with very high values. Separating children from parents is repugnant. Excuses given are weird and untenable. This could trigger similar happenings elswhere in countries that do not value human values. It sets a dangerous precedent.
Reading the perceived shortcomings propounded by the Norwegian authorities, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. The law is a 'donkey', This saying is proved beyond doubt in this instance. I pity the couple who are undergoing such a nightmare without their kids being with them. The matter is in the court. Fine, until the case is settled, the children be restored to the parents. Else, the Norwegian government may expel the family with the kids out of their country as the Indians can't adhere to Norwegian 'law'.
This whole thing is making my blood boil. The level of arrogance and
ignorance the Norwegian bureaucracy has shown is astounding - except
that it isn't, as anyone who has had to deal with the self-righteousness
of Europeans, even supposedly "liberal" ones, who are perhaps as
Eurocentric and oblivious to the fact that there are different ways of
doing things in other parts of the world would know only too well.
The case presented above reflects classical cultural insensitivty.I am amazed and appalled by the social services citation about the parents inefficiency.Had they have any psychiatric evaluation of the mom in regards to her bonding with the child?
This outrage perpetrated by the Norwegian government on immigrant parents is reminiscent of the forced removal of indigenous (Aborigine) children from their families in Australia – giving rise to the “Stolen Generations”. The Norwegian case is even worse, considering the laughably trivial trumped up charges they trot out in defense of their abominable cruelty of breaking up a young family. How can Norwegians, who pretend to be civilized, stand for the practice of their Government taking away infants from their mothers just because they did not have proper basinets and diaper bags? The world should condemn Norway for its barbarity
What is Indian Embassy doing in Norway - Sleeping I wonder? Shame on you India to leave its citizens helpless in strange countries with strange traditions.
this is ridiculous. Can the parents now appeal somewhere else ?
The surprising thing is that the Indian consulate did not come to help until the moment the case was shown in Prime news channels in India. Even though the parents got in touch with consulate earlier, they did not try to help until Media came and published this story.
What is this, this is strange? I do not see any short comings here, may be I am not seeing some thing that Norwegian authorities are trying to say. If Norwegian authorities have an issue with this family, they should just deport their family back to India and may be mention their concerns to Indian authorities. But not take away their kids from them. I understand Norway make look at this as strange way of raising kids but we in India may not. Most Indians are proud of how they raise their kids and most of this generation is successful in both physical and emotions perspectives. If you think this family is that careless they would not have fought for their children. So if I can I would request Norwegian authorities to reconsider their decision in this matter.
Slapping a child is severe child abuse, even a tap is wrong and constitutes child abuse. So, the parents are clearly at fault here and that not having proper clothes for children in a cold weather, especially in a foreign country is a severe offence. The children are in danger, and hopefully they have a decent environment to grow up in when they are returned back to India.
This Norwegian Child Services System sounds like something between the Australian Governments infamous kidnapping of aboriginal children (in the not to distant past) and a manifestation of a truly 'nationalist socialist' nanny state. It is truly shocking to read of the couples' experiences in that 'civilized' part of the world. For all those surveys placing Norway as one of the most desirable Countries to live in- Voila!
This story smacks of racism. It would be interesting to see how many other white Norwegian children are taken away from their parents just because they don't have "proper toys". Even if there is no racist or stereotypical element to this case, it certainly highlights the absurdity and intrusion of the state in social affairs. Surely there needs to be enforcement of child protection laws. But, these laws must be minimalistic in nature so as to protect every child from physical and mental harm while allowing parents the freedom to rear their offspring as per their wishes. If only the Norwegian authorities weren't so ignorant of the Indian couple's cultural background, they would put this case in a sociocultural context and consider the parenting norms in India. Every detail of this story suggests that the authorities were simply trying to find any and every ridiculous reason to separate the children from their parents. Truly outrageous.
The reasoning (as stated above), if you can call it that, is utterly ridiculous. To me, it comes across as coldblooded, racist, xenophobic persecution. Where exactly is the serious neglect?
The craze to live in a foreign country has resulted in these NRIs not knowing the law of that country and hence landing in this kind of trouble. We can not challenge the laws of Norway and it would be better for the couple to come back to India. A piece of advice to all Indians who want to become NRIs, please learn the laws and customs of the country you are planning to
go.
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