Norway's Foreign Minister wants satisfactory end to the case of children's custody
Norway's Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Store told The Hindu in an exclusive interview here that the Norwegian authorities should evaluate the methods used by the Child Protection Service so that cultural differences were better understood and taken into account in future. However, he was at pains to explain that taking a child into permanent custody, as decided by the Stavanger District Court in the Bhattacharya child custody case, was “truly a measure of last resort.”
“I can say that when this is settled, hopefully settled in a way which will be respectful of the family, the children, and also prove the respectfulness of the welfare system in Norway, we will evaluate. We will have to go back and look into what we learn from this. Not perhaps primarily about the rules, but about handling these rules – how they are interpreted and how they are applied,” he said.
Norway was a country governed by the rule of law and as Foreign Minister he could not intervene in the legal process, howsoever well disposed he was to India, he noted.
The Bhattacharyas, Anurup and Sagrika, are waiting with hope and trepidation for the court verdict on March 23, which they hope will resolve their battle for the custody of their two toddlers, now under the care of Norwegian foster parents.
Although the Stavanger Child Protection Service has announced it is willing to award the children's custody to the father's brother, Dr. Arunabhas Bhattacharya, considered capable of taking on the onerous responsibility of caring for the children, one of whom appears to have a personality disorder, the court will have the final say.
Dr. Bhattacharya, a 28 year-old unmarried dentist from Kolkata, has put on hold his practice to help his brother and sister-in-law. He has been staying in Stavanger for the past month, receiving training and counselling on how to take care of the children.
“I am fully aware that this has brought forth a lot of emotion in India. I have many friends who have come to me through government and informal channels alerting me to this and we have to work very systematically to bring out the correct information about procedures. However, I think everyone understands that the government cannot start commenting on the details of what, at the outset, is a very serious matter. So those facts being established, I have received Special Envoy Ganapathi sent by my counterpart. My understanding is that he was able to see the authorities, visit Stavanger and that there is good progress on this matter now,” Mr. Store said.
Click here to read the full transcript of this interview
Keywords: Norwegian laws, child protection, Bhattacharya couple, cultural differences, child custody, India-Norway ties
@Matthew
Any Tom, Dick & Harry can claim that he has the papers. And any quack can claim that he has read the dossier and his learned conclusions are the opposite of what the Barnevernet (CPA) says. Hallelujah !
Talking of quacks, what hat do you wear when you make your claims? A psychologist? A lawyer? A self-appointed expert in Child protection? Or merely a "paid coolie" for politically influential Indians ?
By the way you sound not very different from Satarupa who commented to the The Hindu article dated feb.17. This gentleman had this brilliant conspiration theory where, he claims that 'Norway deliberately kidnap Bengali kids because they are genetically intelligent and hard working.' I guess you have some theory too. Please entertain us.
Mr. Matthew (2/2)
Nobody claims that the CWS is infallible, certainly not me. Indeed, I have
mentioned past cases where CWS mistakes were appealed to the European Court of
Human Rights in Strasbourg and domestic verdicts were overturned.
Mistakes in the realm of custody deprivals are egregious errors, deep tragedies.
Especially if courts dont spot & undo errors in the bureaucracy. But the issue here
is not about CWS infallibility but about 1 specific intervention, the full facts of
which I and many others do not have.
In the unlikely event of Mr. Støre having access to the files, he is forbidden from
commenting on a case that is on its way to the court, and cant influence its
outcome - unlike in certain other countries.
As regards your comment about Ms. Naravane, myself & others being “paid trolls”,
well Sir, in the interests of continuing a decent debate, I will refrain from
hitting you below the belt merely because your views are different from mine.
Mr. Matthew (1/2)
So what if the entire dossier has been released/leaked to you? It has not been
published in its entirety in any reliable publication, particularly since it contains
confidential data pertaining to minors. Existing regulations prohibit the CWS from
releasing information to other than concerned parties. Now that you have this
dossier, are you going to publish it? Wash that hapless family`s dirty linen in
public?
All that you say here is that since you have the dossier you have subjected it to
your “legal analysis". And then, in your infinite wisdom your conclude that it is an
"abduction". You are entitled to your views. Maybe the lawyer for the state may
read the same facts differently. And therein lies the crux of the matter, courts
decide on the basis of a fuller picture of the case, including relevant precedents.
And surprise, surprise: the courts will ignore politicians, the media, you, me, the
caste of the parties to name a few...
I have the decision of the County welfare Board, I have the District
Court Judgment, I have the reports of psychologists, social workers. I
have everything, the full dossier. I am not basing myself only on what
the parents are saying. I want to be even handed-The Hindu’s Vaiju
Naravane
The Norwegian Barnevernet and the paid trolls like V.Suresh, P.V Iyer, Raamganesh are desperately toiling to make us believe that there is something more sinister in the case and the parents are at fault while the HOLY spotless Barnevernet can do no wrong:) Feeling hot under the collar at the hate wave coming their way Mr Gahr Støre is tryin to wriggle out even when they are scared it will open a can of worms and set a precedent in the other abduction scenarios. Stone walling as an art should be taught as a course in Stavanger.
To any critics "You dont have the full details of the case" is a masterclass!!
Reverend Theckedath,With all due deference and reverence to a man of the cloth such as yourself, may I humbly remind you that we are on planet Earth. Alas, on this planet cases of alleged child abuse are handled in accordance with man-made laws not any spiritual or other divine laws.
The children were not abducted as you seem to suggest but placed in foster care. Aliens from the Heavens have not been involved. And let me assure you that the average Norwegian does not sprout horns on his head. Norwegian Courts will decide whether the authorities erred or not in this case and they will apply the law of the land. And despite your ecclesiastical enthusiasm for this case, I must humbly point out that the trade you ply may have little to offer by way of advice to a Norwegian Court.Amen !
Raamganesh, You are obviously not very good at finding out information which is easily available to everybody else. The fact that Norway and Sweden had eugenics programs which continued even after the Second World War is well known. One example - Alva Myrdal was a proponent of eugenics in the Nordic countries, and she was later even given the Nobel Peace Prize. That alone says a lot about the diseased world view of the Nordic countries, when the Nobel Committee did not find anything objectionable about Myrdal's support for eugenics. There is much about this subject which is available to readers who want to know, so I would suggest that you take the trouble to read up on this matter yourself.
@Mohit - Norway and Sweden still practice Eugenics, it steals
immigrant children forcibly - you make extraordinary comments. But
it just doesn't seem to square with reality. UNICEF says about child
rights - "A true measure of a nation's standing is how well it
attends to its children - their health and safety, their material
security, their education and socialization, and their sense of
being loved, valued and included in the families and societies into
which they are born" and according to this measure, Norway and
Sweden come out top three in virtually every measure.
I suggest, Sir, that if you are going to make these extraordinary
statements, that you do it responsibly, perhaps by starting to
provide some evidence for your views. And I mean evidence from
respectable sources and not just from some obscure Norwegian
journalist or from some spurious websites which I am sure you can
find aplenty in the same way I can "Google" websites claiming,
confidently, that the earth is a cube.
With all deference to Norway's Foreign Minister, it is my most conscientius duty as an Indian citizen,(living for forty years in Canada),to emphasize that the abduction of two very young Indian children by Norway cannot be justified by insisting that it was the law.History is repeating itself.The Grand Inquisitor of the Inquistion sent innocents to be tortured or burnt at the stake on the basis of law.
The massacre of the Albigensian "heretics"in Piedmont was acc.to decrees,on whichMilton wrote his sonnet,"Avenge O Lord Thy slaughtered saints." By Sharia laws women are stoned to death.The
Taliban uses it too.So let theForeign Minister consult the Hon.P.M.,and have the Attorney General submit to the court that the Govt.has no objection to the children who are Indian citizens being sent back toIndia,as requested by its Govt.for them to arrange for their care.
Let not the Govt.act like the false mother in Solomon's immortal
judgement,nor be"playing the harp,when Rome was burning."
@V Suresh, The case documents are been released by the family themselves, and a Norwegian journalist has printed the reasons for the actions of the Norwegian "child care" authorities. If someone writes that they don't know of these preposterous reasons, then they obviously haven't followed the case. You evidently find it convenient to clutch on to straws to defend the system of your adopted country.
Kindly read up on the history of Norway and Sweden, and you will learn that stealing children from minorities is very much part of the culture of these countries. The governments of these countries have taken large numbers of Sami children away from their parents. Norway and Sweden subject people to eugenics experiments even after the Second World War ended. Is it any surprise they continue without their shameful practices even today?
@Krishnamoorthy - Sir, if the Norwegian CPS believes that it is in
the best interests of the children to keep them away from allegedly
abusive or negligent parents, then surely it is immoral for them to
say "OK carry on the abuse but do it in your own country"?
Further, I am not "dictating" how anyone should think. Of course I understand that the easy one-sided black-and-white picture painted for us by the media in which the Norwegians are the villains and the parents are completely innocent victims is bound to pull the heart strings of many. But some comments here go too far towards jingoism and stereotyping, and I think at some point the mind should rein in the heart.
And let me state clearly that in case the parents are innocent and this is just some cultural misunderstanding, then I hope that the Norwegian courts will rule in their favor and the CPS will learn to be more culturally sensitive.
The CPS, by keeping the children away from their parents, is doing a bigger damage than what they claim has been done by the parents. Agreed, the parents should go by Norwegian code while in Norway and Norway has to follow its due process - and we readers don't have the complete picture. Then, why don't they just deport the entire family - parents and children - instead of subjecting them to their laws there and complicate matters? After all, they are Indian citizens and they would be happy to come back. And, how they rear their children in India is none of Norway's business.
@Ramganesh - Nobody needs to be surprised by the readers' outpour. Though we need to wait and see, the heart rules more than the brain in these sensitive issues. You cannot dictate how others should think.
Mr. Raamganesh! I so heartily agree with your sober comments - shorn thankfully of the jingoistic babble that self-righteous, self appointed armchair experts on Norwegian welfare laws spew here. As you correctly point out, facts of the case have not been divulged from reliable sources. Indeed, one could sue the state for privacy violations if such sensitive information is released - hence the paucity of press releases.
Cases such as this are complex and citizens who are unhappy with a state verdict will often present facts from their viewpoint and in ways that favourably present their side of the story. That is natural. Indian media has also fuelled the idea that cultural mis-understandings alone lie behind removal of the kids. That is yellow journalism. Indeed, even the defence lawyer for the family Svein Svendsen, in the newspaper Dagbladet of 19th Jan, confirms that cultural variances alone did not trigger removal of the kids. I quote him "A wholistic evaluation was done... "
Dr mr store
I AM A MOTHER of two children, and I know very well about your so
called child welfare system , and I am sending all my documents and
try to send other documents of victimized family. The so called child
welfare service in Norway snatched my 4months old daughter and 2 yrs
old boy. The allegation was 2 months baby was looking other people
face more than the mother . I had no proper connection with my
toddlers. I promised you I was recorded all of the videos of my
children when they are in home. i should sent all the videos in my
home and should tear off your mask. Every years 12800 children had
been abducted by child welfare. Its a big business in norway of child
welfare and their foster families. The foster family will earn 3000kr
per day per child.You people have power and always misuse your power.
A person who takes a handsome salary from a private company has no
moral right to blame the Government of India. In fact government is
willing to serve its citizens better, but the employees who work
under it(getting access to all benefits) aren't.
So if you are not satisfied with government's activities, you have
two options-one: to resign your 'lucrative' private job and get a
government job; lead others by example; and be a responsible
citizen. two-"shutup" your mouth and sit quietly; you have no right
to blame the respectable government.
Laws & rules are subject to intention & not the other way around. If the intention behind a law is noble, a knowledgeble attorney will have no difficulty in saving an innocent & getting the real culprit punished. However if the intention of a particular law is based in harassment on racial/cultural background then God help Norway!!!
A.Subrahmanyam, I entirely agree with you! India should first of all be very wary of what kind of ideas foreign funded NGOs are trying to introduce into India. Secondly, India should take some initiative to stop this form of child trafficking which is taking place in the "developed" nations - because if we do nothing now, this menace will eventually spread to India.
I am really surprised by the jingoism in many of the comments. The
Norwegians Child Services haven't really released the facts of the
case to the general public because they aren't supposed to according
to their law. So much of the speculation - that it is about culture,
about racism etc - seems to have its basis in media-promoted here-
say and rumor. Are we really a 100% sure about who is right and who
is wrong on this issue?
Our Indian government is on the matter. The Norwegians too have
taken the matter into their courts. So perhaps we must wait and see
before condemning all of Norway and Europe as racist and bigoted.
The Norwegian act of splitting Indian kids from parents by invoking some petty child care law, is heinous and despicable. This will only aggravate anti-Norway sentiments in India and Norway will be looked down as a rogue country. Is this Nordic country acting worse than a communist/fascist nation by stealing Indian kids and treating them as if they are state property? What will happen if Norwegian nationals in India are targeted tomorrow, and Indian Police build up cases and lock up Norwegians invoking unwritten Indian laws?
Indian Culture is emotionally positive in the sense when a mother feeds a child with her hands, the child is emotionally bonded to its mother and is in turn to the family. European culture being much less emotional is persisting on man-made laws like this. Anyway its once again a big failure for a country well known for its heavy population rather than brave diplomat-ism.
Its time the external affairs department put some real pressure and bring smile in the face of the child's parents.
For a change, why doesn't our media teach the feminists how to look after children properly, instead of lamenting on the poor parenting techniques in Norway? After all, THAT will benefit a young, innocent, future generation.
Well I believe separating the kids from the parent is a serious crime. And we Indians should register an international law to this crime and as such any nation who goes against this should be punished or blacklisted against crime.
This is none of Norway's Business or law to judge how parenting should be done for foreign nationals. Their law should be applicable to their citizens and people. In fact, they are not the international governing body to represent about parenting.
If such is the law is to be constituted under international law then any countries in the world could enforce any of their laws on other countries to the visitors in the foreign sand.Which is not right.
We Indians should defend our culture and integrity no matter how different we are from others.
How can Indian children be taken away by people of another country? If
the parents were considered lacking in the 'superior Norwegian'
childcare practices, why weren't they taught by the CPS? Expats in
India have companies and their embassies helping them adjust to our
environment, after all. CPS had one duty and one duty only, that of
strengthening Sagarika's environment. Why didn't they help her buy the
right toys and clothes? Being new to the country she may have not
known why to buy and how to get there with two little ones in tow.
Instead CPS has torn the children away from their parents, that too a
baby that was being nursed by a mother, claiming that feeding from
sterile bottles was far superior to being nursed by the mother.
Preposterous!
Thanks to Hindu for keeping this issue on the spotlight tenaciously. Going by the statements of these ministers, and officials of CPS, we get a very poor and frightening picture of this country Norway. They say it is "very serious", so why are the parents not being prosecuted? If the parents perpetrate a "very serious" abuse of the children, they should be prosecuted right?! And, as a consequence, the children may be taken under care and immediately handed over to India whose citizens the children happen to be. Nothing that they say is appealing to even common sense, forget legal sense. They are training and counselling the uncle, and what is preventing them from training and counselling the parents? The ego of the CPS?! Or the mafia of the foster parents who make an easy living off these orphans?! It is not just these 2 children, I feel India should lead a global war against this evil Norwegian CPS. The state of Norway can be accused of systematically creating thousands of orphans.
It is quite clear that what we are witness to is a cynical, calculating industry at work which survives on wrecking families. It is meaningless to speak of the rule of law, when the most basic rights of families have been compromised. I think this case has opened our eyes to the viscous crimes committed in countries which like to project themselves as flawless.
Dear Mr Foreign Minister of Norway, You cannot justify the action by the Child Protection Service under any pretext in this situation. Primarily, the individuals involved in this case are persons of foreign origin and hence it is likely that there is going to be a cultural gap in their understanding of the laws of the land. If your laws do not provision such an eventuality then it is sad indeed and my request would be to modify your rule books ASAP. It is also very sad to observe that decisions were not expedited in this case because the nature of allegations and its subsequent repurcussions are very severe for the Indian parents and this should have been taken into cognisance by the judicial system out there. To me this case reeks of a distorted attempt to showcase a supremist behavioral pattern on part of the CPS. Fellow Indians, be very careful with where you decide to settle abroad because such cases highlight the very unfortunate repurcussions of not knowing your host culture
Delaying handing over the kids to their parents will do irreparable damage. The children are 1 and 3 years old. This is when the older one recognizes the nuances of life and understands or familiarizes with his parents. This is like forced kidnapping!
Norway is on the pathway to produce their version of "Stolen Generation" that Australia had created
Kudos to The Hindu for following up on the story and keeping the heat on. The behavior of the Norwegian Child Welfare Services and the Norwegian courts show a cold, clinical, fundamentalist legal approach - a blame usually accorded to extremists holding a banner of religious right. The Child Welfare Services shows a complete disconnect from human emotions when no abuse or crime was involved. The Hindu needs to this fire stroked such that the public empathy is maintained.
Sir, I read the norwa's foriegn ministers interview to The Hindu.He says that at the end Norwnorway will evaluate the system. The children were taken away from the parents and this is march and still there is no final solution yet. The court will have final say. The Indian children are not the only ones taken away from their parents. Two other children from srilankan parents have also been taken away. I don't think the Indian culture is in anyway inferior to the western culture. It looks like any Tom dick and Harry can criticize that and get away.even Greg Chappell can criticize the culture and none of us will rise our little finger against it.We Indians have developed some inferiority complex. Why don't we say that feeding children with clean hands is not a sin? If these people can say that children should not sleep in the parents bed we can also say that allowing the children separately is not safe. We all think that the skin color makes them superior to us,which is not right.
Once again, can someone clarify what evaluation was done about the couple's son's behavioral problems? Does he have a developmental disorder such as autism, which is inborn, and NOT the result of bad parenting, but which is very difficult to cope with without good support for the family and special education for the child? If the child has such a condition that would explain his behavior, and the parents' difficulty in coping with him. Taking such a child away from his family is a terrible misunderstanding of these inborn conditions.
That means they are intolerant to other cultures and practices. They only go by rule book. How can they be global in vision. Yet another time Indian authority has shown weakness to be strong. Italy is all out to save their sailors from being arrested. Where are we? How we are going to be a developed Nation? Shame.
Its very convinient for Europeans to tell Indians that their laws will
be applicable to children separated from their parents on Norwegian
territory but when it comes to prosecuting Italians who murdered two
fishermen off the cost of Kerala, Europeans insist that this falls
within the purview of Italy's jurisdiction.
India can't probably influence what happens in Norway but an example
MUST be made out of the Italians. Nobody has the right to kill people
without justifying any serious threat to their personal safety and
later escaping the punishment by calling it an anti-piracy operation.
Please Email the Editor